The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by holleywoodphoto, Nov 3, 2010.
What I'd like to see is a good step by step Frame clip thread. Has anyone documented one?
I never give up. I have a demanding job that pays for all my toys and has me on airplanes way too much. And just in case you aren't familiar, I am Mr. Expert. I've spent twelve plus years doing custom chassis and suspension work for paying customers that are very happy. My shit goes unfinished while theirs turn out great. I have more cars on the road right now than you are likely to ever own, including two that made feature articles in quality publications. Just so we are clear, I have done a couple of real life kit cars and they are no easier than traditional builds, they just come out of a catalog or rebody something to look like something it isn't, kinda like an S10 frame under a shoebox Ford.
You wanna piss in someone's Post Toasties, pick another guy, FNG. I stand by my remark. Swapping a late model chassis under anything isn't traditional rodding and the HAMB is about Traditional Rodding. That means using parts and materials that were available prior to the dreadful turn in the '70s. I like high tech stuff and even mix it into my personal projects, but I don't pretend that a frame swap is traditional. To top it off, I absolutely hate seeing another nice survivor get butchered in a half assed attempt to put a car on the road on the cheap, especially when it will be worth half what it started at when it's done. I am more than happy to coach, teach, assist, whatever, anyone that wants to come and learn a better way, but I will go out of my way to discourage crap that isn't consistent with the charter of this forum.
Clearly, by many of the other posts on this thread, I am not alone. Now, How may I help you?
Yes. Lux Blue did one putting a Camaro Clip in a Chevy truck a couple of years ago. It's a very popular thread.
Not a fan, but he did a good job.
And Mr. xxzzy999, I know Lux personally and he does great work. You wanna clip a car, you better take notes from him.
I don't care for these frame swaps either, 99 times out of 100 it's a lazy solution that creates more work than it's worth, but if a 32 Ford frame under a Model A or T then upgraded to '40 or newer brakes is okay, just what's the difference in an S10 or Caprice or whatever under a '50s car? The goal is the same, to handle better and stop better using some newer parts....
I've seen a caprice frame used with great success, but to call it a swap would be misleading. It was actually a case of integrating the caprice suspension into a shoebox chassis.
There are two points for me. Primarily, it's out of place on a forum that is dedicated to traditional means. The Duece rails under a Model A fits, S10 frames don't. I'm a long time member and have watched the line move over time. I recall it was grouchy old timers that once held the line, so I am stepping up for my turn, rather than letting the line continue to slide. Don't like that? Tell the boss.
The second point for me is the destruction of the designs. I don't see the value in channelling any body you like ove a rolling chassis. There's rarely consideration for suspension geometry with a clip, so that's even worse. Why take a chassis that works as well as a shoebox ford and throw it out to hack up the floors and ruin the value of the car. Unless it's executed very, very well, no frame swap will ever make a more desireable vehicle. So your floors were rotted out? Look in the tech section to see some very nice and simple ways to put them back. Want it lower? We got that, too. Wanna drive a caprice that looks like a shoebox Ford? Try someplace else. (I've never heard anyone defend the caprice or S10 chassis as their ultimate desire, just a compromised means to an end. F' that. Dig in and build your dream car.)
Hmmmm... thanks for the offer, let's see... maybe you could help me design a brake pedal using your "traditional" cad/cam computer stuff.... naw, on second thought, I'll just bend a coat hanger till I get that perfect angle, then use it as a pattern to make a pedal...
WOW Scotty... Pull those panties out of your crack... that was sure a lot of emotionally charged yapping in your reply. I'm sorry ok... I didn't realize it was "that time of the month" again.
Hmmm, 'underwater beer drinker'. Hardly credentials for attacking someone of established prowess in a specialized genre...
You can always tell the guys who won't be around in a year.
Maybe you haven't heard, but "Underwater Beer Drinker" is a new type of job under Obama's "Jobs Program".
I hope to someday become an "established prowess in this specialized genre" (that's real cute... I like that). God knows, I spent a lot of time in small Texas bars practicing for this new profession... or genre or whatever it is.
That is beautiful and way better than my set up!!
Amen to that.
I guess I'll have to let the "rate this thread" button and the one lowly star it's garnered reinforce my point.
It's never too late to change a few things on your build for the better.
Good Luck Hollywood!
On another note, what is really sad about this thread (haters are you still reading??) is that there were a few people trying to help another individual with his questions (granted this was not a "100% traditional hotrod" thread (I/WE GET THAT!!), but there was a '50 Ford involved), while others delight in throwing water on his dream.
IMHO, this really does a disservice to HAMB's Alliance Vendors (i.e. by running folks off for not being "100% traditional"). If I didn't have thick skin, I would have been long ago. Instead, I have remained, tried to contribute where I can, gained a lot of knowledge, and have already spent $2,500 with an Alliance Vendor, and plan to spend more.
Even if a build is not 100% HAMB friendly, it will still need parts, services, etc. that HAMB Alliance Members supply... so, why run them off? Doesn't make sense.
Stay Thirsty My Friends!
WOW. This thread got really out of hand.
To the OP. Why are you seriously considering this swap? are you 100% confident on your own work? Have you taken steering into consideration? Steering column? what about brakes? what about engine choice? Motor mounts? ride height? how far are you going to have to channel the floor for that to fit? Body mounts? Rubber for those mounts? wheelbase? and then ask yourself how much easier would it be to subframe or even rebuild what is there?
Most times it is easier and money better spent on repairing it to stock floors and possibly using either a subframe that works correctly, or repairing what is there. Again, as stated, this sort of thing is overdone. The overall look may be OK, but is it worth the time, effort, and pain just to say you put it on an s-10 frame? If it were me I would be askin all of these things. It is how I explain to my customers what it is they are trying to achieve.
Nice diatribe. You really seized the moral high ground there.
Oh, if you're so big on the Alliance, pay up. I did....Every year since it's inception. It's not too late for you, all you need to do is click right HERE. Heck! You coulda saved hundreds on your Alliance discount!
OP, my apologies for derailing your thread. Don't take it personally. I really would be glad to help you put that car back together, I'm just one of many around here that care enough to preserve the original intent of the HAMB.
XXXwhatever, Put up or shut up. Come find me at the Day of the Drags or join us for breakfast in Hutto any Saturday morning. I'll buy.
not my "fight" but dont you have a vortec propane powered 350 in your ford? hows that traditional?
this site has way to many "badasses" for its own good...people need to take a freakin pill
i have no opinions on this thread. Just adding to my post count!
It's a Chevy! Not a Ford. Small block chevys are very traditional. Propane predates gasoline as a motor fuel! I do have a solid axle and split bones.
I flirt with the "line" all the time. I've had threads closed that crossed it. I even get a reprimand now and then. Swapping an S10 frame isn't flirting, it's outright molestation.
Bad Ass? No. Good natured debate about something I take seriously. I'm not the cop, they have moderators for that. I'm quite serious in my invitations. I've taught people to weld on the HAMB, I've taught suspension setup and construction, sheetmetal work, shit talking and even how to cook. You wanna play in this sand box? Better enjoy getting sand in your shorts.
proud molester of a 53 ford.... i did it because ,, well it drives better,stops better,steers better.. i can get parts without having to order them for from some repop place, odds are they arent made in USA.... the jamco kit is very nice...but you still have a crappy steering box..i like having the options of what steering box to use.i like being able to drop into almost any parts store and get the pieces i need. right then.... i can get bigger brakes, lift or lowering spindles...heavy sway bars ,,aftermarket control arms... the list goes on... back in the day they took the best parts they could get to make their cars better...in the tradition of hot rodding /building custom cars im doing just that ..making my car better .making it perform better... i just finished a 1300+ mile trip with a trunk full of parts ,2 drag slicks,spare tire,jack,5 gallons of race fuel hanging off the rear bumper. car handled great... stopped straight. did i mess up the car? hell no!!!!
...we need pics
Cheap yes, 1990s technology, no friggin way. The suspension design goes right back to the 1970s when GM started using it under mid-sized RWD cars. I've had a few S10s and S15s, other than stopping better they don't handle better than any IFS car I've driven from the 50s and 60s. Most of the poor handling in older cars comes from not having sway bars or worn out components. There is a world of difference between a car drug out of a field versus one that's been freshly redone.
HOLD THE BUS Scotty-Boy....
I believe Flatout65 may have hit on a relavent point here.
Mr. Expert, you can't have it both ways... first you say the S10 frame swap is not traditional (assume you mean HAMB's basic definition of '64 and earlier), then you say your SBC 350 is traditional.... I'm going to have to call bullshit on that. The SBC 350 came out in '67... so, it's not "traditional" either.
On the other hand, borrowing your logic, the initial SBC, a 265 was introduced in '55, the follow-on SBC 350 came along somtime later, so it's also traditional. Therefore, since Chevy produced a truck chassis prior to '64, the follow-on S10 chassis came along sometime later, so it's also traditional.
Bingo! I like your logic Scotty-Boy... scratch everything negative I said about you earlier.... you're not such a bad cowboy after all.
(note to self... could it be that Scotty-Boy and I were in violent agreement with each other and we didn't even realize it? Maybe we could become BFFs? And, maybe, just maybe, the hardcore HAMBers will treat S10 frame swapers as real human beings? naw, dammit probably not...)
I LIKE TURTLES
now that is some funny shit! hahahaha!
I sure hope you are talking about "traditional" turtles, especially on this thread.
However, I have my doubts whether any traditional turtles exist. Since any domestic turtle would be dead by now if born pre '64. And, if it were born before '64 and still alive, i.e. a Seychelles Giant tortoise for example, it would be an import and therefore not a "traditional" HAMB friendly turtle.
I'll have to consult with my buddy Mr. Scotty to confirm this and get back to you... just sit tight. Wonder where he is today... probably off teaching someone how to cook.
Great post... keep up the good work brother!
Worked on that all night, huh?
I am in a funny place where the shit is so deep I fear for my life but to flee would be interpreted as surrender....
I'd rather drown than concede. I stand by my first remark. S10 swaps are kit car 101.
By the way, your Relaxation video is quite hypnotic.
In case any Newbie reads this far down through the doodoo, here's a thread on S-10 Clip in a Shoebox.
Not to stir up any shit, but the HAMB is all about traditional rods AND kustoms. Is an S10 frame swap ok for a "custom" discussion here? Just wondering.
Not interested in your views of Obama or any other politician, leave Politics off the HAMB.
Because the Drama outweighed the Relevant Info.
Please post things that are Relevant and On Topic.
Separate names with a comma.