Register now to get rid of these ads!

Customs Route 66, my family, and a 63 wagon

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Driveway builder, Jun 10, 2019.

  1. The cruise you mentioned sounds more like our monthy cruise on the first Saturday. What I was talking about is 10-15 of us at most that just meet for a few hours after sunset. The first Saturday cruise can have 80-100ish.........good to attend if anybody is doing the route 66 thing thru Amarillo on the first Saturday. Hillside and Bell.
    I just drove past Owens Salvage two days ago...Bob is about 30 miles south of I40/old66 south of Shamrock
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  2. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,949

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    So you saw the '57 Ford sitting in front, It's the crushed cube. :eek: When Jake met them he told me Wellington was like Mayberry with hot rods.
    It was fun in the last 3 days seeing several of the places Driveway builder posted pictures of here just a few days earlier. Without his thread these links to the road would not have been made. Thanks DB!
    There were lots of people at the Cadillac Ranch today. There is a big picture of it in our hotel room. Strange how it has evolved. Every thing that was on it when the family was there has probably been painted over, constant change.
     
    chryslerfan55, Texas57 and loudbang like this.
  3. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,187

    farna
    Member

    Thanks so much for sharing this!! The Rambler came through for you, just about like it would have new! They weren't power houses with the 196, it was an economy car, so a bit low on power for a car load like you had in the Rockies. They were marketed as "good value cars". In the late 60s AMC did try to move the line up in prestige, but found the mid priced market crowded and hard to compete in (Buick, Olds, Pontiac, Mercury, etc). They alienated their traditional value customers in the process of dolling the cars up and raising prices. In theory it's a more profitable segment, but the cut-throat competition meant that little old AMC couldn't successfully compete. 58-65 is their best years. Mostly value cars sold, with some more upscale sales in the mid price region. You could doll up your car if you wanted, that just wasn't the main focus. When focus changed, many customers frowned and looked at other comparable cars since pricing and overall value was about the same as the rest of the field.

    Glad you had no break-downs or anything other than some vapor lock (fuel boiling) issues! Part of the culprit for that is today's gas formulation. It atomizes easier for fuel injection, but a side affect is it boils away a lot easier than gas from just 20-30 years ago. A heat shield for the carb and maybe insulating the fuel line from pump to carb will help, might not eliminate the problem entirely though.

    The 196 has always been reliable as long as the head is torqued every 10-12K or 2-3 years (whichever comes first). The only reason I stopped running one is that it took me three weeks to get a water pump the last time I needed one back around 1997-98. Sent me two wrong pumps, so I sent my old one in to be rebuilt. I had a 63 American at the time which uses a short shaft pump, your Classic uses the apparently more common longer shaft pump. There are at least five different pumps for the 196 - early long shaft (56-59?), late long shaft (60+), short shaft (58-63 American), and one specific to the aluminum block. There are at least two different heater hose outlet configurations on the long shaft, but I'm not sure of the years. That can be overcome with some re-routing though. I drove mine daily and on occasional long trips. It was just getting to hard to find parts! No problem getting them once you know where to find them, but you might have to wait 2-3 days to get them and install (overnight mail). That would have been a bummer on your trip! I was military, couldn't afford that if I was going to a training school or something. I had to leave it at a garage for a couple weeks once due to a mechanical failure. Rented a car to continue, came back after training was over with part in hand to repair and drive home. Garage cut me a break on storage since I was military and traveling, only charged half price! Wish I could remember the place... was back in 1987... Maryland.

    You can put a 64-71 199/232/258 (1971 only 258) in and keep the original transmission and torque tube. Almost a bolt-in job. The big car like yours will take any small block you want with no cutting, but you'd have to build a rear suspension -- can be pretty easy if you have some fab skills. A universal four link and a late model Ranger rear axle works well, but so do ladder bars (longer the better for the road). I have a hopped up Jeep 4.0L EFI (descendant of the 232!) with AW4 auto trans in mine, used a Jag IRS. Easy install, really, but can be expensive to rebuild a Jag axle assembly.
     
  4. silverdome
    Joined: Aug 23, 2007
    Posts: 519

    silverdome
    Member

    Driveway Builder, you can say you're a Ramblin' man now, plus you have a Ramblin' family too. Thanks for sharing.
     
  5. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,187

    farna
    Member

    You guys just need to remember that the "Rambler Six" Navarro used and you all hear so much about IS NOT the little old 196 in this 63!! The 232 came out in May of 1964. The 199 (a destroked 232) came out in 1966, replacing the 196 which soldiered on in the American until then (only in the American for 64 and 65, but the 232 was optional in the American in 65). The 196 is reliable, but around 175 crankshaft GROSS hp is about all you're going to get unless you turbo it. Even then I wouldn't push it much past 200 hp. In stock form it had 127 hp with a 1V carb and 138 hp with a 2V. Theoretically 16 psi should double it to 276 hp, but I wouldn't pump it up more than about 5-6 psi, which would bump it up to around 183-185 hp. It only has four mains, but they are rather wide and the crank and rods are forged (because no one could cast a reliable crank before about 62-63!) , but it also has cast pistons and the 3.125" bore is hard to find pistons for, especially with the right pin height.

    The 199/232 block Navarro used is totally different with seven main bearings. It used a cast crank, but with the seven mains and newer casting technology it's pretty stout. Only a few hard core rock crawlers ever break cranks, even with the longer stroke 258. The block and everything else is a lot stronger than the 196. The 258 has been pushed over 600 hp.
     
  6. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 476

    Driveway builder
    Member

    7C599D1E-F8E6-43A8-B81E-D0179BEB4C5B.jpeg
    I basically just made sure I ran the rope through each handle and always had it catching each suitcase... finished off with a double not. I did notice every time it rained the rope would get loose. I guess rope must stretch or expand when it’s wet... just keep that in mind.
     
  7. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 6,190

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I did some reading up on rope when I lashed the deck railings at my cabin. Manila and maybe hemp rope shrinks when it get wet, polyester does not. I went with poly for rot and mold reasons and it does seem to stretch.
    0826181337.jpg
     
  8. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 865

    sevenhills1952

    So many misconceptions about Rambler.
    A few trivia questions...
    1) was there such a thing as a 1965 Rambler with factory 196 flathead but with a dual master cylinder?
    2) In 1964 there was a prototype Tarpon. Was one ever actually produced and purchased? What engine would it have had? What chassis was it on?
    3) Was there such a thing as a 1966 Rogue convertible, 290 V8, 4bbl., 4 speed? If so, how many made?

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
    loudbang and chryslerfan55 like this.
  9. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,187

    farna
    Member

    Bungee cords for the luggage is much easier! Unlike cars today, the Rambler has "rub rails" on the roof. I miss those on my Expedition and Escape. I've though about using those stick one rails you can buy for the sides of cars on the roof of the Expedition... might do it. Keeps things from sitting on the paint, takes most of the weight even with sift sided luggage. I use a nylon carrier bag on those when I need the extra room. I made some wood rails to fit across my Rambler rack to carry a canoe once, haven't done that in a long time now, since it's no longer my daily driver and I have a truck now.
     
  10. Mike
    Joined: Mar 5, 2001
    Posts: 3,448

    Mike
    Member

    When you've got the urge, you've gotta splurge.
     
  11. kb9jlo
    Joined: Sep 28, 2007
    Posts: 7

    kb9jlo
    Member
    from Central IL

    Incredible trip, story, car and family. Congratulations. Hope you make the FL trip next year. Maybe if you stay fairly close to the coast you can totally avoid mountains but that might get boring. Thanks for sharing.
     
  12. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 1,291

    oldiron 440
    Member

    Was it rambler that had the retractable roof on one of there wagons?
     
    loudbang likes this.
  13. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 865

    sevenhills1952

    Studebaker had it. Not sure about Rambler.


    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
    loudbang likes this.
  14. 1-SHOT
    Joined: Sep 23, 2014
    Posts: 1,600

    1-SHOT
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    IMG_2324.jpg Studebaker
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  15. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 1,291

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I wasnt sure it's been a while since I've seen one.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  16. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 865

    sevenhills1952

    Any guesses on my three questions?

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
  17. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 3,764

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    The father of a member here owned the Tarpon at one time, but I can't recall who it is.
     
  18. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 865

    sevenhills1952

    Correct! It was my Dad (r.i.p.).

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
  19. Great for quoting!
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  20. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,187

    farna
    Member

    Since no one else tried....
    1) Rambler used dual master cylinders in ALL cars from 1962 on. The only other maker to have dual master cylinders stock on all models in 62 was Cadillac. They made the flat-head six from 58-65 for the base model American. It was the same block as the 41-55 Nash flat-head six, but with the water pump moved to the front of the block instead of the side.

    2) Tarpon was a show car built on the 64 American chassis. Only one driving example was ever made. It had a 232 six, but could have had the old 196 six cylinder. I don't recall if it had AC or not. The 64-65 Americans are identical, but you could only get the 232 in 65 and without AC! There was no room between grille and radiator for the condensor with the longer 232 six. That's why the face-lift in 66 -- added 2-3" in front of the radiator. One reason AMC didn't build the Tarpon was they felt their existing V-8 was too heavy for the American. The new, lighter and slightly smaller (physically) V-8 didn't come out until late 1966. A 232 with a small 4V would have been a great little engine for the first year though, or even the optional 2V model until the 290 V-8 came out. biggest reason was the president of AMC at the time didn't like small cars and wanted to move AMC upscale.

    3) In late 66 AMC introduced the Rambler Rogue as the top of the line American model in hardtop models with four speed transmission with the then new 290 V-8. Supposedly 1700 of those were made. You could order a 66 convertible Rogue with V-8 and four speed. I don't have numbers in front of me, but there weren't many...
     
    chryslerfan55, loudbang and ClayMart like this.
  21. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 865

    sevenhills1952

    Welllll....
    Allow me to correct a few things. Please no offence, just correct information you'll never find with internet research or books.
    My Dad owned the Tarpon. Not the red/black one you see pictures of, but the one drivable one. It's a very long story, but purchaced new from Tibbs Motors Rambler dealership in Lynchburg Virginia in 1964. It was white (prototype cars came from "the white room" as I was told by a Rambler factory worker.
    Yes it was on the 1964 American chassis...however...327 V8, 4 speed Hurst shifter, reverse lockout, overdrive, red interior, red bucket seats, red shag carpet, a small back seat. 14" wheels, wire basket hub caps with center spinner. Under hood lots of chrome, valve covers, brake reservoir cover, air cleaner, Holley 4bbl. No ac, am-fm radio, tach.
    My original 1965 American you're correct, base model, 195.6 flathead six, dual master cylinder.
    In 1966 Rambler made three American convertibles 290, 4 speed. One of them was a Rogue. Mine is unrestored original Rogue. Serial #2.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
  22. Driveway builder
    Joined: Jan 17, 2013
    Posts: 476

    Driveway builder
    Member

    Finally found a 63 Wagon gas cap... who knew they are not reproduced and are super hard to find. I’ll have to get it painted to match the car, but at least I have it. From now on the cap gets put on the drivers floor while I pump. 4AA212A4-B926-4170-8336-66CAF34423B9.jpeg 1018D713-04E6-40AC-BD4E-DE2788179117.jpeg
     
  23. partssaloon
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 379

    partssaloon
    Member

    I have a ranchero with a body fender type cap that isn't available. I still have the original cap. When I take it out to anywhere where it will have to sit in a parking lot I remove it an put on a locking type cap.
     
  24. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 2,949

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    I screwed up leaving Kingman this morning and got on I-40 after I should have turned off on 93 to Vegas. We just went on to Topock and went through Oatman back to Kingman. That is a really cool and original piece of 66 and shows what it was like. I'm glad we did it even though we didn't make it home as early as we had planned. The whole Texas trip was a lot of fun.
     
  25. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,187

    farna
    Member

    No offence at all! I may be the resident "Rambler Guru", but I don't know everything, and can't recall everything right off the top of my head even if I did "know" it!!!

    I was guessing on the engine for the Tarpon, as I don't think I've heard that info anywhere. Thanks for sharing!! I have production figures for 60s Ramblers, but didn't dig them out and look for the 66 Rogue convert, so only noted that it was available, as that's all I could remember. I don't get a lot into production numbers, as too many people want to know how many were made with their specific drivetrain/option/color combo. Most of the time those are just bragging rights, adds no value to the car... with some exceptions. Yours being a desirable convertible with a desirable drivetrain combo and low production is one of the exceptions.

    Someone made a "reproduction" Tarpon a few years back... maybe as much as 10. They just grafted a chopped up Marlin roof on an American though. One thing about the Marlin roof is it's not as sleek as the Tarpon roof was. Abernethey (AMC president at the time) was a big guy and liked big cars, thus the Marlin instead of Tarpon, but also ordered the roofline to be raised to get another inch of headroom in the back seat!! He wanted a "full sized" adult to be able to sit in the back seat... meaning him. He made that order while Teague was away in Europe for some design study or something. All I recall was Teague was away for several weeks and didn't know about the change until he got back and it was too late -- tooling had already been ordered for the body panels. An early Dodge Charger roof would be more in line with the Tarpon roof, but finding one would be a challenge!
     
  26. farna
    Joined: Jul 8, 2005
    Posts: 1,187

    farna
    Member

    You didn't discover that a lot of Rambler specific parts aren't reproduced when you were working on that thing? It's one of the challenges of owning a "less popular" old car!! Got to know where to source parts, and sometimes be inventive. Do note that most 63-64 Classic and Ambassador body parts interchange (Ambassador had the same wheelbase those years, only exclusive difference was the V-8 was Ambo only until late 64 when the 287 appeared). The grille design change in 64 meant a hood change as well, but the front fenders remained the same. Most mechanical parts are the same from 63-66.
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  27. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 865

    sevenhills1952

    Man (rip) loved that car when he first saw it. I was 11, my brother 15 at the time. Brother wasn't in to cars like I was.
    Mom hated the Tarpon with a passion. She couldn't drive it (4 speed), shag carpet hard to clean, no trunk lid, we two kids had a hard time getting in back seat. Worst of all was everywhere we went a crowd of people around it so glass full of hand prints.
    One fellow called me years ago about it as he was building a clone.
    Dad traded it back to Tibbs Motors that Fall after ordering a 1965 gold Ambassador 990 4dr, 327,auto. that Mom loved, but I didn't.
    AMC missed the boat since the Tarpon was a perfect Pony car, beating Mustang by a few months.

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
    chryslerfan55 and loudbang like this.
  28. sevenhills1952
    Joined: Mar 14, 2018
    Posts: 865

    sevenhills1952

    Stupid spellchecker...first word "man" I wrote "My Dad".

    Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk
     
    loudbang likes this.
  29. Unique Rustorations
    Joined: Nov 15, 2018
    Posts: 298

    Unique Rustorations
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just an FYI you should be able to single tap your post and it should bring up a menu where you could edit the post and then re-save it at least it does on my iPhone app. Not for sure about an android. Regards, Randy


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
  30. 51504bat
    Joined: May 22, 2010
    Posts: 1,325

    51504bat
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Spell checker is fine, its auto correct that is the instrument of the devil. IMHO
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.