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Technical Rotary Phase Converter

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by callcoy, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. callcoy
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 127

    callcoy
    Member
    from Nashville

    Need someone in the Nashville area to help straighten me out on my Rotary single to three phase converter.
    Will assist you to send your child or grand child to collage for your participation in this quest. Please contact Steve via PM or email at callcoy1@gmail.com
     
  2. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,223

    Fortunateson
    Member

    I believe phase converters go from three phase to single phase. Can I get at least one year of college education fees covered for my granddaughter please?
     
  3. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,517

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Community college or Ivy League? :D
     
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  4. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,517

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Sorry for your granddaughter’s lost education opportunity :(.....the converter makes 3 phase output from single phase input.....;)
     
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  5. Call a qualified electrician.Do you have the equipment?
     
  6. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 206

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    You can make a converter for 3 phase from a 3 phase motor and some capacitors very inexpensively. It's not a "true" 3 phase....or so I'm told but it works. I made one years ago to operate my milling machine, so I know from experience that it works. I believe I still have the instructions on how to do it, I'll try to remember to look tommorrow. If I remember correctly, whatever size 3 phase motor you use, it can support 3 times that output.....maybe it was 5. Anyway, a 3hp motor would be capable of supporting either 9 or 15 HP.
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  7. Ask these questions to any capable electrician and they look at you like you’ve got two heads. At least around here. “You can’t make 3phase”

    There out there used, pretty cheap sometimes
     
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  8. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,517

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Are you asking if he has a telephone? :eek:
     
  9. Once you get the pony 3 phase motor spinning on single phase you effectively are turning it into a 3 phase generator.
    You can do it in a number of ways. Very primitive with 2 pulleys, a belt, a single phase 220 motor and a 3 phase motor. You can use a gasoline engine too. Hence the designation “rotary”. That will run your equipment.

    Then they get more sophisticated from there being still rotary and even more sophisticated solid state.
     
  10. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 206

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Here are some pics of my phase converter...... Also, you might want to consider using a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) instead of a phase converter. Thats the newest electronic whizbang that people are using to power 3 phase motors. I believe you can get them cheaper than actual phase converters and maybe as cheaply as you can assemble your own version of a phase converter. Phase Converter 1.JPG Phase Converter 2.JPG I scrounged my capacitors from old air conditioners. One thing to know is that there are 2 types of capacitors. At least I'm aware of two, but I'm electrically challenged. There are START capacitors and RUN capacitors and they DO NOT interchange. I poured some concrete in a box and put some studs in it to bolt the motor down and provide some mass to keep it from walking around. Then got a couple of old electrical boxes to house the components. Check out the variable frequency drives first though......

    Anyone not familiar with electrical equipment probably should not fool around with this stuff, cause you can get hurt or dead....me, I'm just lucky.
     
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  11. '51 Norm
    Joined: Dec 6, 2010
    Posts: 648

    '51 Norm
    Member
    from colorado

    The last single to three phase converter I did (a couple of months ago) was with a VFD. The entire cost of the project was under $100 and that included lunch. It only took a few hours to install and set up. The hardest part of a VFD install is figuring out what settings are needed. The bonus is electronic overload protection, variable speed, soft start and reverse in one little package.
    In the past I have built rotary converters (expensive and didn't work very well) and Phase splitters using capacitors. Phase splitters work OK in some applications and are less expensive.
    As far as finding a "regular" electrician that has any idea what you are talking about, good luck. In this case the internet (AKA HAMB) is your friend.
     
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  12. The VFD is the cheapest and most reliable way to go nowadays. Just check that your 3 phase equipment has the "separate windings" type motor. You can check by opening the junction box cover on the motor, and if there is a junction box in there that has 6 wires going to it (3 windings X 2 ends) you can use the VFD.
     
  13. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 206

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    I agree with you. The VFDs were recommended to me by an engineer I know and I think they are the future. I built mine about 25 years ago, so I'm happy with it. Didn't have VFDs back then. Personally I have no experience with the VFDs, so I'm just speculating based on my friends recommendation. It would be nice if you could let us know where and how you purchased yours and set it up.
     
  14. '51 Norm
    Joined: Dec 6, 2010
    Posts: 648

    '51 Norm
    Member
    from colorado

    I found the VFD on ebay. The set up depends on the three phase motor that you want to run.
    All VFDs have an input for three phase, you only hook up to two of them. The output goes to the three phase motor in the normal three phase fashon.
     
  15. Fortunateson
    Joined: Apr 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,223

    Fortunateson
    Member

    I'm electrically challenged and what I meant to say is the the converter allows you to run three phase as a single phase. Now my mechatronics qualified son used a VFD to convert a mill and a lathe to work on single phase. He can easily explain it but you better get comfortable. As for my two year old granddaughter she'll most likely be attending one of Canada's fine universities so no "community college" or overgrown vegetational institute for her as it won't be needed.
     
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  16. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,517

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    @Fortunateson .....actually my question about which type of institution of higher learning was intended for the OP, who offered that as an incentive......however, the timing of replies made it appear I was asking you.......in any case, this thread turned out to be informative and, hopefully, produced a chuckle or two.....:)
     
  17. khead47
    Joined: Mar 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,536

    khead47
    Member

    A friend built one to power his lathe and Bridgeport. The machine tools will not develop full power, but are functional.
     
  18. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 4,195

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a VFD on a big drill press that I got for free. You should know that you will only get about 2/3 of the power you would get if you have regular 3 phase power. Mine seems like even less, but I can live with it; the things it adds (like '51 Norm said) are nice additions. Mine was also tough to set up as the manual appears to have been written by a foreign person with no knowledge of Englsh and a Japanese/English dictionary. I got through it, though.
     
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  19. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,836

    noboD
    Member

    If you have a real production made one just call the manufacturer and get installation instructions.
     
  20. indcontrols
    Joined: May 29, 2013
    Posts: 74

    indcontrols
    Member

    Most of the VFD's that will run on single phase power (not all do) have horsepower ratings for 3-phase, and a reduced hp rating for single phase input. Automationdirect.com has reasonably priced units that are very rugged, I have installed hundreds in industrial machinery. They also have the "short version" of the install manual available, kind of a quick setup guide.
    Definitely safer due to electronic overload protection and ground fault detection, not to mention more energy efficient - the real bonus is the ability to vary the speed easily (including faster than the original base speed of the motor)... or you can just set the unit at 60 hertz and run at "normal" speed.
     
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  21. ottoman
    Joined: May 4, 2008
    Posts: 272

    ottoman
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    I run my lathe with a VFD and my mill with a rotary phase converter... the VFD is WAY better in every way!! And they are cheap these days
     
  22. What the rotary motor is for, is to balance out the voltage and the phase angle of the three phases. It is a big improvement on just a static converter, and works better than a static converter when there is a high starting current draw, such as on a hoist.
    I did the same thing to operate one of my welders and my hoist. What I read, was that the rotary idler and the static converter ratings needed to match, and that you could not draw more than the hp rating of the idler. I never need to use the three phase motors at the same time, so the 5hp rotary converter is enough for me.
    Do you remember where you read that you can use a 3 times the rating of the idler motor. If I can do that, I would switch my compressor over, I have other three phase motors.
    Bob
     
  23. Bearing Burner
    Joined: Mar 2, 2009
    Posts: 835

    Bearing Burner
    Member
    from W. MA

    I had good luck using a 220V Toshiba VFD on a 1 HP motor. Turns single phase 220V input into 220V three phase output with capability of varying speed of motor. You made need a potential college student to program it.
     
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  24. Yea!!!
    Me too
     
  25. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 206

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    I'll attach a page from a conversion manual that I have. According to the manual which I hadn't looked at in many years, there are 3 ways to do the conversion and it only says that one of the ways will support the 3 times way.
    Personally I don't think I would want to add a compressor to a circuit because of the high starting demand and the sometimes continuous running when using certain air tools. My suggestion would be a dedicated VFD for the compressor if you can find inexpensive ones.
    The thing here (in my mind) is that you don't actually save money using simulated 3 phase and having a motor that is running continuously so that the compressor can kick on and off. What it does do is allow someone to run something like a drill,mill or lathe that only has to run while you are operating that machine. 3 Phase Converter 14.jpg
     
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  26. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 3,983

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Here is mine, built using a 15 hp pump motor. It powers a 10 hp lathe with ease. I plan on using it to power a 7.5 hp compressor , but not at the same time. IMG_3057.JPG IMG_3058.JPG
     
  27. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 206

    ekimneirbo
    Member
    from Brooks Ky

    Like I mentioned earlier, the problem with running a compressor is that in order for a compressor to kick on and off while you are working, you have to leave the phase converter running continuously....so its using electricity all the time.
    I would either convert the compressor to single phase or use a dedicated VFD for the compressor.
    You have a nice set-up there.
     
  28. Pat Thompson
    Joined: Apr 29, 2012
    Posts: 166

    Pat Thompson
    Member

    I have two Bridgeports, a 21" Southhbend lathe, a 24" Grob bandsaw, a 20Disc sander and a24" State disc sander, all 3 Phase. I have a 10HP 3 Phase motor that I start with a cheap 10 Hp static converer. The only flaw I have found is reversing the 24" sander makes the 10 HP motor almost jump off the floor, but it works. I have ran 3 different pieces of equipment at the same time before too.
     
  29. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 6,836

    noboD
    Member

    If you are going to build your own the 3 phase motor has to a Delta, not a WHY. I know WHY is spelled wrong. I THINK it's supposed to be Wye, pronounced why.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019

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