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Rocket 324 Specialists to the rescue!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnnyolds98, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    To all Oldsmobile specialists out there,

    Last week I have incurred a sudden noise from my freshly revised 324ci rocket engine. As it was a constant tac-tac-tac-tac relative to the rpms I figured out it could be something with the valves.

    So I located the noise to passengers side and took of the valve cover to inspect the rockers for any play. I quickly found the last rocker of #8 causing the noise and moving much lesser (shorter way) than the others.

    As I was able to push in the pushrod I figured out it is the lifter and took of the intake manifold and the valley cover to check and replace the broken lifter what I found really puzzled and shocked me... compared to the new lifter the old one was missing almost 4 millimeters (5/32') of material on the contact surface! :eek:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Did anyone of you ever experienced such a damage before?

    I did check the wear on the lobes of the cam and measured them all - they're fine. It's just that lifter that is damaged.

    Just wondering if there is anything I need do now other than reassemble everything and see if it works??? Do not want to ruin anything more.

    This is my second cam installed now. The first one did not survive the break in and showed excessive wear on exactly that lobe although every kind of lubrication was used on the lifters and the cam according to common practise.

    Any help as to the damage and the solution is highly appreciated.

    Thanks
    Jan
     
  2. lionsgarage
    Joined: Dec 18, 2005
    Posts: 111

    lionsgarage
    Member
    from Washington

    Hmmm, have parrots rockwell tested before you reassemble, it looks like it was spinning so lifter bore is likely not mis bored......sure fire cure is to use a tool post grinder or even a crank grinder to put a slight flat spot on th lower side of the lifter body to spray oil onto the lobe when lifter is on the base circle of the cam and a ways up as well.
    The did this back in the late 70's on a fleet of bucket vans that idled all day and would wipe out cams an occasionally only lifters....good luck, I'd like to know what your results are tho as I need to rebuild one of those engines this winter.

    P.s. later we learned gm did this exact trick to the 2.8 v6 at the factory so for sbc use those lifters.
     
  3. Dago 88
    Joined: Mar 4, 2006
    Posts: 2,157

    Dago 88
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Was the cam run in on fire up? & also what oil are you using ?
    Charlie.
     
  4. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Installed a brand new cam and lifters in March '12 and a proper break in had been carried out on first start up (20min. @ 2000rpm) using special break in oil and all the additives and lubes on contacting surfaces etc... A friend of mine did it as he owns a speed shop and knows his stuff from having done this many times.

    After the break in an oil change was carried out and the car was driven with 20W40. Did not rev it up much during the first 1000 miles just constant cruising at max 60mph.
     

  5. Olds Tinman
    Joined: Jan 20, 2011
    Posts: 228

    Olds Tinman
    Member
    from W.N.Y

    Is there zinc in that oil????
     
  6. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,587

    Paul
    Editor

    is there an issue at the top end?
    sticky valve, galled shaft, spring bind or other resistance?
     
  7. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member


    I have never seen an oversize lifter bore, but repair manuals say that some lifters in random bores were oversized from the factory. I don't see any strange wear on the sides of the lifter, but you should check that bore, just in case.
     
  8. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    Anybody else spot the #7 intake lifter sitting on the base circle; it must be an optical illusion, but the centerline of the lifter looks way off to one side of the lobe?
     
  9. Dave50
    Joined: Mar 7, 2010
    Posts: 1,751

    Dave50
    Member

    You need the right parts. I would asssume and i HATE to,,.. that you got the wrong parts or the replacement lifters they sell and there is a difference in a few areas. Call Tony goatroper02 here on HAMB Ross racing engines. I could help aswell give him or I a call.
     
  10. It looks to me like they all are sitting off to one side of the lobes. Maybe the cam as been pulled out partially? :confused:


    Also, maybe it's just me, but that lifter seems to be work down 'too' perfectly. Stupid question, but is it possible that it was short to begin with?
     
  11. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Yes, it did. We used it for it cuz it had Zinc in it. Also added Zinc an additive and used some hi-performance lube during the assembly - stuff and procedures as if it was a hot cam...
     
  12. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Checked that first thing. No restrictions on the top side...
     
  13. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    I know the picture is not very good and it all looks a bit odd partially caused by the angle and the lobe's position but I only had my crappy mobile with me y'day and the reflections gave me quite a hard time... :eek:
    Looking straight down on the lifters and their position on the lobes the do all line up at the same set off as they're supposed to. But will measure that tomorrow to make sure they do.

    Thanks for the hint.

    Jan
     
  14. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Hi,

    There's always the chance a slightly different lifter sneaked into the shipment - however I got them from Fusick and they'll usually know their stuff... but already have heared Tony is THE guy to contact regarding rockets...

    Thanks for your assistance. Will let you know if I need anything.
    Germany is not the no.1 place to look for mid fifties Olds parts... :D

    Jan
     
  15. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,587

    Paul
    Editor

    Of course you checked push rod length. If those are Chevy lifters stock rods won't work.
     
  16. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Have checked them, they're all equally sized.

    Do Chevy lifters fit an Olds engine? :confused:
     
  17. Paul
    Joined: Aug 29, 2002
    Posts: 15,587

    Paul
    Editor

    Chevy lifters fit '49 through '56 Olds engines but you will need to verify push rod length to work.
    I'm running them in my '50 303 but didn't take note of the push rod part numbers,
    Delta Camshaft knew exactly which ones I needed.

    Tony, aka GOATROPER02 here should be able to clarify this.

    my money is with Speedy Canuck on this one,
    it looks like an oddball short lifter went in, the wear looks like hammering from excess clearance not friction from excess pressure, resistance or poor lubrication
     
  18. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    I think there is a hole worn through at the bottom, right into the inner bore, so I think it was the same lifter, then worn down?


    I had a 56 324 that someone put wrong lifters into. The old box was in the car marked VL-49, fitting some later GM motors, not sure if SBC. Those had the same outer length, but the pocket that holds the pushrod was 1/4" higher than the Olds lifter. So, it needed shorter pushrods.
     
  19. blackrat40
    Joined: Apr 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,167

    blackrat40
    Member Emeritus

    Not to be a smart ass but I think the only thing I would put that lifter in would be
    the trash can. It looks way to bad to me to put on any cam again.
    It's certainly mysterious why that one lifter is so much shorter than the others.
    It's very surprising that the cam lobe that lifter was riding on is not badly damaged.
     
  20. VL-49 if I remember correctly from my parts days, fits early Pontiac and is not interchangeable with a sbc. Melling lifters for a sbc may still be #JB-817 FWIW.
     
  21. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Thats exactly where it is! :D
     
  22. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Just for those interested - the other 15 lifters gave up as well... Leaving me nearly stranded in the middle of nowhere...

    Getting a set of rollers (incl. cam and push rods) from Tony now to eliminate any further problems ...
     
  23. Can you elaborate? All 15 gave up...what happened?
     
  24. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,208

    flatoz
    Member

    Agreed,

    I would like to hear what happened, as if you followed conventional procedure for running the motor in...

    I don't think I read, how long has the motor been together and running before you found this issue? How many miles on it? I know you said March this year, but has it sat around since then and you only just got it in the car and running or has it been in the car and running since March with 5k mi on it?

    Just interested to know how much work the motor has done before the cam/lifters went south.

    Cheap lifters that weren't hardened properly?

    feel your pain, but I think the roller cam will bring a smile to your face.
     
  25. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    It was around 1500km I had on the engine in about 6 months until the first lifter gave up. Thought it was just the one because it was the only one that showed the excessive wear you can see on the pics. Exchanged that one only because the others looked alright... From then it took not even 200km for the next ones to give up and grind down so much in one case as the first one. Unfortunately this time the cam started to wear as well because of the edge where the bore came through..

    Only reason for this wear can be missing or incorrect hardening of the lifters face.

    Really looking forward to get the roller setup and get my ride running again ('tho it's now winter here in Germany with freezing temperatures).

    Will let you know the outcome of the operation.
     
  26. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,208

    flatoz
    Member

    Sorry to hear, I feel your pain, as being OS too, I understand the $$ involved just in shipping something.

    Did you contact fusick and let them know?

    I have dealt with them a few times and found them to be ok, but not on engine parts.

    I do have to call them with a question so will be interested to see what their response is.

    Its not winter yet! but I'm sure the temps are going down daily,

    Throw up a few photos of your olds, I would like to see it at least.
     
  27. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Have to make a correction to my previous statement: lifters weren't from Fusick but from Falcon's... and yes we have contacted them, providing all info on which procedures and materials (i.e. lubes) we used ... awaiting outcome.
     
  28. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    Sorry, don't have any good pictures of my Olds here at work... This one's from the day I got my new WWWs.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. Johnnyolds98
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 123

    Johnnyolds98
    Member

    1st of May Cruising ...

    Plans are:
    Lowering - done that (2,5" all round) Front: cut coils / Rear: lowering blocks.
    Mild shaving - done that (fender scripts, scripts on the trunk, antenna - no good music on air anyways).
    New paint - front:white / rest:golden - lower body colour to wrap around the 2nd body colour incl. post and roof.
    Interior - white/gold - mildly modified stock in white vinyl and original golden inlets on panels and benches.

    Mods slowly going on while keeping it a driver ... well, best I can with the present troubles... :rolleyes:
     

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  30. iamben
    Joined: Apr 6, 2009
    Posts: 106

    iamben
    Member

    Have you changed the oil? If/When you changed the oil was there an enormous amount of metal shavings in it? That's a ton of steel to be floating around in your oil!!!
     

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