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Technical Rocker arm help

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by card16969, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. Card16969...don't forget to measure and consider the angle of the dangle plus the sag of the bag.
     
    henryj1951 likes this.
  2. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    Is that while swinging it clockwise or counter clockwise?
     
  3. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,304

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    Full dish pistons (yours) eliminates most of the quench effect.


    Oh when i was talking about this it was in the year 1971,
    On one of our engines, with Aluminum rods,the piston hit the head, the stamping on the flat(quench)area was so close that 2 of 8 pistons left a reverse IMPRESSION of that over bore number .
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
    card16969 likes this.
  4. I can't believe I'm taking my time in answering this. First there was a stock engine- second was a machined block.

    Question 1 - no it's not exactly the same, however the uniform flat does do its job. The circular heat sink mathematically sheds less piston heat but does still do so & it also sheds heat much more evenly.. resulting in a piston with slightly higher temp but more consistent temp across the whole thing. Heat will always transfer i.e. Move from higher to the lower so it's doing so in a radial pattern- pretty even and symmetrical.
    If the flat weren't important and did nothing, why bother with at all? If it has no effect then a much more simple flat top piston further down the hole should net the same as dish. Remember that is not all that the things it does for the combustion process either

    Second question- both re read your prior post & then mine.

    Who's not checking stuff???
    I suppose the person dealing with the block in the senerio posited by you in your prior post about stacked tolerance variance. And just my opinion here/ anyone running Pistons 0.115 down the hole or anyone suggesting a 0.041 compressed height head gasket without asking or knowing what the piston deck height is at currently. To me such falls clearly and squarely under "not checking stuff"
     
  5. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    I wasnt the one saying anything about a machined block just got to make that clear! I was just asking about the quench of the dished piston.

    I brought a piston to tdc and verified with a dial indicator that it was in fact at tdc. Using a vernier caliper i measured a depth of .025 and then verified the next piston and it was .025 as well. So a .015 head gasket would be correct right?
     
  6. RR
    Joined: Nov 30, 2008
    Posts: 103

    RR
    Member

    As to your question- I run and am happy with Scorpion full roller rockers. The roller tip prevents side loading the valve and wearing the guides. Stock gets away without them due to the profile on the stock rocker arm roughly matching the arc required. With a higher lift cam, you really need the roller tips.
     
  7. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    Thank you!
     
  8. Apparently that would depend greatly on who you'd ask. But 25 and 15 Does add up nicely to 40.
     
  9. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    Hey im just making sure that there wasnt a .013 or something that puts it lower which is even better or something. Im making sure what im doing is right
     
  10. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 3,220

    Fordors
    Member

    No argument from me about the heat transfer in the piston, but I still see the factory dish counter-productive to good quench. Does that mean we agree to disagree?
    As far as the "scenario posited by you" (me) do you really think that factory components are all 100% to the print, with zero tolerance? If that were the case than there would be no need to re-machine or blueprint anything. You've never seen a deck that was off in relation to the mains, or variation in rod lengths or any number of things wrong for that matter? All I said was if No. 1 is checked for quench one cannot be certain that the quench is the same across the board.
    Again, my combination works fine. Two road trips to Oklahoma City and all around the mid-west with good gas mileage, no detonation and no hassle on the road speak to that fact. And my suggesting the .041 head gasket was no more than a reference to the recommended gasket on the spec sheet from ProMaxx shown in post 49. Many aluminum head manufacturers call for a fire ring type head gasket, I would think they know what is best for their products. It is up to the end user to decide what to do with that information. If an .041 fire ring gasket is best does one deck the block or leave it with pistons .025 down as mentioned in post 125? Sounds like the block needs to be decked to me, but check all the pistons and if necessary take an average and cut the block accordingly.
     
    henryj1951 likes this.
  11. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    What is a fire ring type head gasket
     
  12. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,304

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

  13. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    Okay now another question... so my girlfriend is thinking about buying me a new set of Harland sharps for my birthday which is in a few weeks since I won't shut up about them. Summit has the 1.6 rockers on a bit of a clearance. So my question is should I have any issues with valve to piston clearance running a 1.6 rocker? Also the 1.6 with the Comp Cams 268h cam should make it Rumble a bit more at idle correct?

    Needless to say she's winning girlfriend of the Year Award right now! Although I think it's making up for the fact that I bought her a motorcycle for Christmas LOL
     
  14. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    So since i need a .015 gasket it means it will be a shim type and i will coat it with copper correct? Is there anything else i need to seal it with?
     
  15. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    I ask this because the reviews for the .015 shim all states that it is not rubber coated
     
  16. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,304

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    card,
    1) i'd slam some permatorks(or what EVER is recomended or EASY) and stock type rockers and get this thing DOWN THE ROAD
    2) we have in the past used a spray coppercoat on the steel shim gaskets
    3) how many years before you up-grade to the 383 you desire to build
    4) to plan a bit ahead i'd also upgrade those heads , to bigger springs,
    and 7/16 rocker studs -n- with 7/16 studs you'll need matching rockers.
    5) and decide what the 383 will be using a BIGGER yet cam or stay with the one you have
    6) just my opinion, others will vary, but the cam needs to be designed for 1.6
    7) 1.6 is not worth the 5500 6000 rpm engine you have NOW ,you'll not see much gain
    8) oh is that SALE about 18bucks ... no big deal there
    9) too many cooks spoil the broth
    10) everybody builds differently so i'm sure there's more ways to skin the cat
    11) sit down and chart out this build AND the 383 up grade so you do not spend twice
    12)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  17. Charlie K
    Joined: Nov 28, 2016
    Posts: 30

    Charlie K
    Member

    FelPro 1094 is a rubber coated .015 shim gasket.
     
  18. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,304

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    They used to be black rubber --- now clear coated
    What's wrong with FP7733SH1 there a whole bunch cheaper.

    or

    MAHLE ORIGINAL/VICTOR REINZ 1178BS
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
  19. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    The fp isnt available through summit. They have pretty much everything im looking at at cheaper prices than anywhere else. They only had 3 options for .015 and that was one of them.
     
  20. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    1 the gf is trying to come up with a birthday gift for me so it was an idea.
    2 so does the clear coating on that gasket seal like the black rubber did?
    3 if the 350 is stout enough i may just wait till i do my 79 z28 for the fun motor... Im thinking a ls stroker for it and is probably best to just leave this as a cruiser and be smart so the gf can drive it on occasion.

    The more i keep thinking 383 the more i think just make this car look and sound good with a little bit of pep in its step and make the camaro the fun car. Im 35 with no kids and been collecting toys for a long time and now im finally finishing projects. A tornado put me way behind schedule so i had to prioritize and i think that a cruiser and a hotrod would be best as 2 different cars since i have them. If i limit myself to a plan i wont keep trying to grow. Like my turbo motorcycle project i kept growing and growing now i have limited myself to the 350hp max mark and its become so much easier to plan the build as i have 98% of the parts and as soon as the car is done i will have the space in the garage to finish that.

    I guess its kind of what makes me not need this car to be really fast as i already have a fast bike thats currently 180hp and about to be faster. I think i just made up my mind on staying 350 while typing this out lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2017
  21. Hallelujah!!!!
     
    wraymen and henryj1951 like this.
  22. card16969
    Joined: Sep 6, 2016
    Posts: 58

    card16969

    Haha sometimes you just gotta make a execuative decision lol
     
  23. henryj1951
    Joined: Sep 23, 2012
    Posts: 2,304

    henryj1951
    Member
    from USA

    FP stands for Fel-Pro
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-7733sh1 10.97 each
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vri-1178bs 9.32 each
    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1094 22.97 each
    http://www.rockauto.com/en/partsearch/?partnum=MAHLE+ORIGINAL/VICTOR+REINZ+1178BS 4.73 each

    and some recommend High quality head studs or head bolts with
    hardened washers must be used to prevent galling of the aluminum
    bolt bosses.
    they range from *PIONEER S1018 Set* 4.56 and UP
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017

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