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Roadster Royal

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Ryan, May 27, 2008.

  1. looks like it has MG sized wheels, maybe 15" but then everything looks like an MG part to me...
  2. scruff
    Joined: Apr 11, 2004
    Posts: 276


    I remember the clone owner telling me the wheels were ''American'' Rudge wire wheels as opposed to ''english'' rudge wheels; I think this made them even more rare and oddball. He did say he got all this info from Kraft and I think Kraft actually got involved and machined up some part of the knockoff adapters for the clone car himself.
  3. FASI
    Joined: May 11, 2001
    Posts: 1,130


    The car at the 50th Detroit Autorama was for sale. I don't know if it was the real Kraft car or the clone. The owner sign said he was from Royal Oak, MI (suburb north of Detroit) The price was a cool 250K.
  4. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,113

    Member Emeritus

    I got $75 bucks in these but they aren't cut down....... yet! :)

    No Jim you won't see em on eBay......

    Attached Files:

    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  5. HomemadeHardtop57
    Joined: Nov 15, 2007
    Posts: 4,206


  6. TvanD
    Joined: Jun 15, 2005
    Posts: 76

    from Newton IA

    Ron is alive and well in Detroit MI area. I think he's still in Troy. He's one of the best metal wizards in the world. One of my best experiences was his 3 day school in his shop. All hands on and only 6 students. He and his children are the finest people you'll ever meet. He worked for Holmann-Moody, Penske and Foyt. You can also find him at the Osh Kosh fly-in.
    stillrunners likes this.
  7. owen thomas
    Joined: Jun 15, 2008
    Posts: 185

    owen thomas

    The Kraft roadster Hot Rod Magazine cover was huge – all the guys I knew bought that issue and we had the cover on our bedroom walls and in our school notebooks. Even the sports car guys went nuts over it. That issue must have set circulation records. I’ve got a couple of boxes of old car magazines in the back of my shop – I’ll look to see if I have that issue. Hot Rod was our only connection to real hot rodding back then. We had circle track racing but no drag racing yet.
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    Unbelievably, probably in 1955, I saw the Kraft roadster on a used-car lot on Livernois Avenue in Detroit. I think it had come east to a show in Indianapolis, and then stayed here in the Midwest.
    The next time I saw the roadster was just a few years ago in Ron Fournier’s shop in Troy, being restored for a guy that lives in Rochester, Michigan, I think. Right beside the original was a copy that Ron was building. An exact copy right down to the welds. Both were beautiful.
    Ron told me that the original Kraft roadster was owned at one time by a barber on Woodward Avenue, and that he used to stop on his bicycle to look at it in front of the barbershop. I told him about seeing the car on a lot on Livernois, and he said he had heard that from others too.
    Ron says he always wanted to find the roadster, but gave up and built a similar version for himself. Then with his new roadster well under way, a guy came to his shop with the Kraft roadster to have it restored. Then another customer wanted to buy it, but the owner wouldn’t sell. Eventually it was agreed that Ron would build a duplicate of the Kraft roadster as he was restoring the original.
    The original Kraft roadster as it was in the Hot Rod Magazine had a V8-60 and 16-inch Rudge wire wheels. The proportions of the car, motor, and wheels were perfect. The replica that Ron built had 15-inch wires and a 59-A engine and it just didn’t look right. I think the owner has since replaced the 59-A with a V8-60. The original that Ron restored did not have the Rudge 16 inch wheels. Long gone I guess.
    As for the two original roadsters being built, I seem to remember that Dick Kraft and Art Ingles built two, one for each of them, but that the cars were not identical. Isn’t Dick Kraft still around to verify some of this?
    Ron Fournier is one of the finest metalworkers in the world. His shop is now located in Shelby Township. Ron has built and/or worked on all kinds of automobiles, including Indy cars for A.J. Foyt, prototype Ford GT40’s for Ford built at Holman-Moody, hot rods, sports cars, and prototypes. Check out his website:

    Attached Files:

    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  8. shawnspeed
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 165

    from Attica Mi

    I worked on this car at my first job out of high school working for Ron Fornier when he was with Entech engineering on chicago rd. in troy Mi. The car was , and I still believe owend by Dave DeGuire of Rodchester Mi, I beleve. When Dave bought the car it did have the SBC powerplant in it, and he searched quite awile to find a good V8 60 to replace it. when he did, he had George DeLorean of Leader automotive build the little 60 to as close to the original as possible. Dick Kraft was also very helpful in it's restoration as he would send pictures and letters of how the car was originally built. and as far as looking for the twin in a barn somewhere....dont bother, Dick said that the sister car was destroyed in a wreck in southern CA, or the baja penisula , I cant remember which, but it is long gone....Shawn
  9. It wouldn't be too hard to put together a body somewhat like this car. The front end could be made up from a nose from Speedway, and some soft aluminum. A T bucket chassis and you are on your way. Too pretty a car NOT to copy.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2009
  10. Legendary Lars
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 534

    Legendary Lars

    Thanks I am cracking out on Dick Dean History, The Road racing car is AMAZING.
  11. V860too
    Joined: Apr 20, 2016
    Posts: 20


    dads book.jpg FB_IMG_1462293359932.jpg FB_IMG_1462293359932.jpg dads book.jpg I know this is old but DeLorean DID NOT build that V860.
    Dad actually through DeLorean's cock a$$ out of the garage and the next week dave deGuire called dad and asked nicely for him to build the 60.
    Its in dad's Book "The V860 Ford's Little Powerhouse"
    Here is the page from the book.
    kidcampbell71 and Tim like this.
  12. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,419

    Atwater Mike

    Sorry, but Duffy Livingston invented and mfd the first Go Karts. (copyrighted the name, too)
    Art Ingalls was in the mfg of the first Quarter Midgets with Frank Kurtis. Our own Dean Lowe was a winning competitor in the 1/4 Midgets, and was Kurtis sponsored, IIRC.
    Dick Kraft was indeed credited with the first 'rail job', "The Bug"...
  13. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,419

    Atwater Mike

    Along the lines of 'American Hot Rod Sports cars, does anybody remember the "Apache"?
    It was a similar hand built roadster to the 'Royals', Motor Life Magazine (1953?) did a feature on the car, it was from the San Francisco Bay Area, saw a short article in HRM around '54...
    Car was red and white, hand formed aluminum body, wire wheels (looked like Daytons) 2 seat 'sport roadster'.

    Last time I saw it was in the late '60s, it was 20 feet up on a 20" steel tubing 'pylon', at Eddie Perdue Plymouth dealer, in Redwood City.
    Car had a 59A flathead, '39 box...
  14. Atwater Mike
    Joined: May 31, 2002
    Posts: 10,419

    Atwater Mike

    Thanks, Jimmy! I always wondered about what became of the car. (Rich Fox tells us in the 2013 thread it was a replica up on the pylon! Wood and plaster...)
    The real car was formed aluminum, over Shelby tubing. (Shelby tube is Steam tubing, thick wall and with a constitution of an American! (an old one)
  15. Brandonwbn
    Joined: Jun 15, 2017
    Posts: 2


    Lets resurrect this thread again! Here are photos of the surviving Ingalls Kraft Roadster Royale as of yesterday. And if your wondering, it is for sale. If you have interest in acquiring it let me know, I'm not a dealer or broker, the car has been stored with me for the last 10 years, and the owner asked for me to help him sell it since he's older and unfamiliar with the web etc... 20170613_115035.jpg 20170613_115042.jpg 20170613_115059.jpg 20170613_115144.jpg 20170613_115150.jpg 20170613_115157.jpg 20170613_115204.jpg 20170613_115213.jpg 20170613_115220.jpg 20170613_115226.jpg 20170613_115326.jpg 20170613_115333.jpg 20170613_115349.jpg 20170613_115419.jpg 20170613_115427.jpg 20170613_115439.jpg 20170613_115446.jpg 20170613_115456.jpg 20170613_115520.jpg
    Tim, 50Fraud, bowie and 3 others like this.
  16. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 9,740


    Beautiful. What's the asking price?
  17. Holy smokes! How cool!
  18. BradinNC
    Joined: Mar 18, 2014
    Posts: 213


    I'm kinda surprised to see that big ass battery up front, when did relocating batteries towards the rear start?
  19. if you have to ask........
  20. V860too
    Joined: Apr 20, 2016
    Posts: 20


    Dave Deguire still own the Roadster?
    That is the guy that restored it when dad built the engine.
    Remember my brother & I picking up the 60 with the firewall bolted to it and loading it into Dave's van.
    Dave looked at dad and said "Can I barrow them to get it out"?
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  21. jebbesen
    Joined: Aug 18, 2015
    Posts: 483

    from Winona, MN

    Any news on if this car has been sold and what has become of it?

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