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Technical ***Ringing in January 2015 Banger Meet ***

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Jiminy, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    I would still seal it

    100 more cfm? Very good! At what lift and how many inches of water
     
  2. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 939

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bluto,

    yes, sealing is in the works, I want all the holes and machining done before the seal.

    Flow test is done at 8" and calculated up to 28". The reason is my flow bench is small and using 8" instead of 10 for the test puts me down in the linear section of gauges. Old head is about 160cfm @.530 lift and new one is around 270 @.550 lift. The old head is 1 3/4" valve in/ex. New head is 2 1/16" in 1 5/8" ex. Also, old one is old style Rutherford large round chamber, new on is 3D machined similar to SB Chevy with quench decks (valves on 10° angle). Flat top piston design yields about 15:1 CR which means I have room to cut valve pockets into piston head if need be. I have done new rocker design for this and backed off the rocker ratio with a larger OD cam to get the lift.

    This motor has been over two years in acquiring parts and is moving forward. I am off to get the bores cleaned up so the pistons can be ordered.

    Take care, J
     
  3. ^^^^^ sounds like a beast!

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  4. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    John

    My flow bench was built with a Sears shop vac motor. It pulled 18" of water. No recalculating necessary

    The higher the vacuum the higher the accuracy. Not trying to bust your balls it's the truth.

    This was done with a flow stage of differing tube sizes. and at a specified height.

    Max flow at max lift isn't as important as flow just of the seat.

    One thing I learned from having a bench was that things we think and know don't really translate to power sometimes.

    Best of luck honest
     
  5. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 939

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bluto,

    no offense taken, you are right about the flow vac levels.
    The Superflow smaller units used back a few dozen years ago didn't have the flow capability cfm wise, so there is a conversion to get up to 28" level standard. This one came out of an old motor shop and works great.

    I only use it for comparison, like the dyno. I calibrate to the best of my ability which comes down to the accuracy of gauges and standards. I always caution comparing data from different sources. I have had enough dyno experience that you can make it read anything you want.

    As with everything here on this head, it is experimentation. But I know that it has much more potential than the older one. And like you say, it might fall on its face. I don't care, it is my passion and is completely unique.
    That is why I don't do commie racing anymore, I just don't fit in. And I am proud of that fact!

    All the best, John
     
  6. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    But John it doesn't work great if it does't pull much vacuum no matter how many calculations you make.
    I was lucky early on to fall in with those that taught me were to put my efforts to win
    My experience was the more I won the less I fit in too. People spent more money on paint than I had in my engines.
     
  7. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 939

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bluto,
    yes, I agree, however, the calculations are a standard to have a relative 28" "number" which seems to be the standard.
    I do not care if it flows 200 or 300 cfm, this head is an improvement over the other one by a pretty good factor.
    Years ago, when my Son was racing Briggs alky motors on karts, I built a flow comparison rig. I did the vacuum cleaner and did a calibration on the ducts/pitot tube. What I found out was the number didn't matter. It only mattered to me that I had better or worst flow through carb and block. The education of port shape, head shape, valve shape and seats made for some interesting motors. Once the dimensions were identified building was easy. Testing on the dyno showed very consistant results. On a motor that made 10 hp, the variation was less than .25 hp. Pipe selection came down to a tenth or two hp and this made the racing great. It was fun to watch the other Dads scramble when they would see changing pipes or jets (which I never did change, only cleaned).

    Oh, and by the way, the calculations for flow numbers are standard practice on flow benches (this is not something I dreamed up). The real use for the flow bench is to identify the port weakness and have a chance to correct with some sort of measurable factor. I have found the atmospheric conditions make a huge difference in the flow numbers so I monitor when testing is done or more specifically not done. There is no use in testing when the air is real heavy.

    John
     
  8. Happy New Year and happy hunting in 2015....
     
  9. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    The lower the starting point the more chance of a degree of deflection fucking up the end result. You know that John
    I never really enjoyed watching others scramble to beat us. At first I thought they might. One year of steady wins erased that for the rest of my racing. My driver never qualified well but when the flag dropped he'd always fight to the front and generally win. We didn't make a lot of friends winning but we did get a lot of respect and I learned even more. To keep winning required a constant development program. If you ran last times setup you had very little time till the others overran you.
     
  10. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    Does anyone know where to get the most reliable condenser for a Mallory dual point banger distributor? Mines blowing the ones I've been using out every other month.
     
  11. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 939

    johnneilson
    Member

    Bluto,
    You are right about stalling development, the other builders had stalled many years ago. Our equipment was protested and accused of cheating all the time. My Son would just say to them, "tear it down" and the official would. We never had a DQ, had some DNF's though.

    Part of the problem with racing the karts was rules creep. This was to try and reduce costs by reducing power output and parts cost. The net effect was reduced participation.

    In our time, the drivers would age out so you had about 3-4 years before moving to another class. This meant changing restrictors or other parts. There were two different camps of racers, one who bought the race motor from builders and the others who built their own. I invested in tools and machinery, this means that I still have them to use.

    And speaking of that I need to get back to work in the shop, the temp is up to tolerable level.

    Enjoy, John
     
  12. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Problem with the original big condenser is that they use paper in side I don't know anyone really making new ones. I use a Blue Streak Chevy but I'm on 12 volts I still have the "big box" coil.
     
  13. jkeesey
    Joined: Oct 12, 2011
    Posts: 652

    jkeesey
    Member

    I've been using the condenser for a 50 Ford. It's stock 6v and is the same size and wire length as the original Mallory condenser I got. I just wasn't sure if a stock single point condenser can handle the dual points.
     
  14. 29 Speedster
    Joined: Aug 2, 2011
    Posts: 151

    29 Speedster
    Member
    from Colorado

    image.jpg Happy New Year to everyone! We took our Victoria to the Bootlegger Ball New Years Eve. Fun event, but more fun with the flappers.
     
  15. Nobey
    Joined: May 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,171

    Nobey
    Member

    ^^^^^^^^^^
    What a bevy of beauties......
     
  16. BCCHOPIT
    Joined: Aug 10, 2008
    Posts: 2,586

    BCCHOPIT
    Member

    Thanks for the link!!! &
    Happy New year guys & May this be a banging year for everyone


    WACCUSTOMS.COM
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  17. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Five Banger
     
  18. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,203

    RussTee
    Member

    must be a five banger
     
  19. I have a Zepher single and a really nice Holley 92/81 in the classifieds.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-manifold-and-holley-81.950593/#post-10783799
    Still looking for a cast Winfield head.
     
  20. There was a Winfield head in the classifieds a week or so back..
     
  21. Hot Rod 50
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 498

    Hot Rod 50
    Member

    My first banger meet. Cool. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1420920373.832536.jpg


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  22. Thanks and never seen it but will look for it.
    Thanks
     
  23. rally1
    Joined: Oct 25, 2009
    Posts: 119

    rally1
    Member

    Check your wiring, voltage at the coil positive, and voltage at the distributor.
    12v or 6v?
    If you are using OEM "A" wiring, change the ignition to a keyed coil power.
    Battery to ignition key, key to coil positive. Neg coil to distributor.
    I've been running Mallory dizzys for over 12k miles, no failures.
    Ken
     
  24. Hey guys, maybe you can help me out-

    Been trying to get my dad's '28 Dodge Victory Six back on the road (I know... "two" many slugs :)). but the early Carter BB1 updraft carb wasn't working.

    Rebuilt the carb (the brass step up piston was frozen), but now the gas is just burbling out of the jet nozzle, and is leaking badly from it's mounting flange (a new gasket will fix that)

    Also, I don't know what the initial setting for the main metering needle (the idle adjust should have an initial setting of 1 1/2 turns).

    Any thoughts/ideas would be greatly appreciated, OR if you have a recommendation for a better carb to use- it should have a Stromberg UX2, but have not been able to find one.

    Thanks again, Bill
     
  25. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Set the float or better yet set the float after fitting a gross jet........ that should solve the leak unless you have too much fuel pressure ...... Plunger may be sticking still or the well is still dirty

    You can turn the manifold over (maybe) fit a YF they are a little more forgiving

    AND you can ask Doug
     
  26. Hot Rod 50
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 498

    Hot Rod 50
    Member

    Hey guys. So I tried to crank over my A banger and nothing. I took a battery and jumper cables and put the positive on post and touched the negative on the block. It clicked a bit but didn't really sound like it was trying to turn any. Was that the correct way to try it or is there another way? Just trying go make sure it's not stuck then I'll try to get it to fire.

    Thanks
     
  27. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    There's a little hole in front of the radiator ....... insert crank and turn but please turn the key off first
     
  28. Hot Rod 50
    Joined: Jul 30, 2007
    Posts: 498

    Hot Rod 50
    Member

    Ha ha. No key or wiring to speak of. I don't have a crank either. Next question. Would it be dumb to go back 6 volt so I can use the original starter and generator. I will run all new cloth wire and new battery. No accessories. Ign, lights, blinkers are it.
     
  29. Bluto
    Joined: Feb 15, 2005
    Posts: 5,114

    Bluto
    Member Emeritus

    Take out the spark plugs and put a wrench on the crankshaft nut. You do have a wrench don't you? If not put it in gear get friends and push the car. If you don't have friends try to turn the motor over by hand but don't get your hand caught it the fan belt! If you don't have a fan belt ..............

    I've not had my morning coffee yet
     
  30. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 939

    johnneilson
    Member

    You have to remember that these cars were the "Beta test" 85 years ago. You will not find a "check engine" light.
    Bluto is right, at some point you have to be methodical and use what is available, wrench, hammer, horse.
    Pull the plugs and try to wrench it over, some penetrating oil in the cylinders will probably not hurt.

    There are better technologies than stock 6 volt. The real question is what your intention for the car is.
    Check out the FordBarn forums if you want to be nostalgic, if Hot Rod, you are in the right place.

    Believe it or not, the more you understand about these cars the better you will understand your daily driver.

    John
     

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