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Ring clocking

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by burgessdg, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. burgessdg
    Joined: Aug 17, 2012
    Posts: 36

    burgessdg
    Member
    from Morris, Il

    So, the Hastings doc says on page 8, stagger the gaps 180 degrees. And it says on page 11, a one directional cut (vs crosshatch) will cause excessive ring rotation. I'm not arguing whether they rotate or not. I guess you either believe it or not. I will say that using the argument that the crosshatch pattern in the hone job causes the rings to rotate makes one wonder if the crosshatch is done right, will they ever rotate? The rotational forces would counteract each other. Just sayin'... Thanks for all the input. I'll come up with something and write it down this time so I don't forget again.

    Dan
     
  2. GOATROPER02
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,057

    GOATROPER02
    Member
    from OHIO

    Yes we always oppose the gaps when installing rings...... But ....they rotate... Period....

    Here's another example of proof.... In stroker and long rod engines it's not uncommon to have a support rail for the oil ring...... Because of pin location....
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1390963198.387900.jpg

    You'll notice a dimple in the rail......
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1390963242.732436.jpg

    In the days before the dimple I've seen the gap of the support rail find its way over pin bore.... Even though it was installed skirt side..... And I've seen oil rails and expanders wound through that gap as well..... Sorry no pic of that

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1390963532.044650.jpg

    Here ...at rebuild time....on a used piston you can see where the dimple has worn its way on both sides of the ring land over the pin bore.....the support rails DO NOT touch the cylinder wall,and have enough tension on the radial depth of the piston that they should not move.... Yet the oil ring can drag it around when it's rotating....or moving back and forth....point is they dont stay still.....

    Now...want to think harder? What do you think that a roller valve spring with 250 lbs on the seat and 6-700 lbs open does at rpm?

    Would you believe it lifts off the spring seat in the head when the valve closes? Think your stock springs wont do that as well?




    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  3. mechanic58
    Joined: Mar 21, 2010
    Posts: 681

    mechanic58
    Member

    ^^^ the proof is in the pudding! Great pics!
     
  4. von Dyck
    Joined: Apr 12, 2007
    Posts: 678

    von Dyck
    Member

    No matter the method of honing, the final stroke leaves the prominent spiral pattern which will promote slight ring rotation in the piston ring groove. Plateau honing can reduce this phenomenon.
     
  5. hoop98
    Joined: Jan 23, 2013
    Posts: 1,363

    hoop98
    Member
    from Texas

  6. Deuce3wCpe
    Joined: Aug 21, 2004
    Posts: 844

    Deuce3wCpe
    Member
    from New Jersey

    I was watching this thread unfold from the sidelines...was going to put my 2 cents in, but tfeverfred's avatar distracted me also.

    Bottom line is if you say the rings don't rotate, but Smokey Yunick says they do....you lose.




    .
     
  7. 270dodge
    Joined: Feb 11, 2012
    Posts: 670

    270dodge
    Member
    from Ohio

    Oh wow, I think that I remember her name to be Candy Barr. What a good girl! Hastings says that the oil ring expander is to be installed with the butting ends up and not overlapped. The 2 oil rings should be at 180 degrees.
     
  8. von Dyck
    Joined: Apr 12, 2007
    Posts: 678

    von Dyck
    Member

    Hoop98: Thanks for the Link. Lots of real good info there.
     
  9. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 16,390

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    "Piston Rings | 37
    1.6.11
    Piston ring movements
    Ring rotation
    in order for piston rings to run-in and
    seal properly, they must be able to rotate
    freely in their grooves. The ring rotation
    is the result of the honing pattern (cross
    grinding) on the one hand, and the rocking
    movement of the piston at the top and
    bottom dead centre on the other hand.
    flatter honing angles cause fewer ring
    rotations whereas steeper angles result
    in higher ring revolution rates. The ring
    rotation also depends on the engine
    speed. 5 to 15 revolutions per minute
    are realistic figures to get an idea of the
    dimension of the ring rotation.
    on two-stroke engines, the rings are secured
    against rotation. As a result, both ring
    rotation and rebounding of the joint ends
    into the gas channels are prevented.
    Two-stroke engines are mainly used in
    motorcycles, gardening machines and
    the like. The irregular wear of the rings,
    a possible coking in the ring grooves and
    a restricted service life due to inhibited
    ring rotation is tolerated in this regard.
    in any case, this type of application is
    dimensioned for a shorter service life
    of the engine from the outset. The
    requirements made on a normal four-
    stroke vehicle engine that is in road use,
    are higher by far where the mileage is
    concerned.
    The twisting of the ring joints by 120 ° to
    each other is only intended for facilitating
    the start of the new engine. After this
    period, any conceivable position of the
    piston ring inside the ring groove is
    possible, provided the rotation is not
    inhibited by design (two-stroke engines),"​
     
  10. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 929

    Bert Kollar
    Member

    Muskegon Ring ( major OEM supplier )says stagger the gap, the rings will move PERIOD
     

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