The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by edwardlloyd, Dec 3, 2011.
I'm afraid you won't.
Something tells me Eric just doesn't get it.
In this economy, everyone understands finances going south. But a measure of a man is in his ability to handle adversity. One does not hide and run from obligations. Sometimes people have to make the uncomfortable declaration that things have gone bad.
I think Edward Lloyd would have understood if Eric had been straight up. But it sounds like Eric just stuck his head in the sand and hoped the problems would go away.
Best answer to that I know of is to say that an offense to a HAMB Alliance member under the auspices of being a HAMB Alliance Vendor is an offense against us ALL, and ALL of our business. So get your shit straight over there @ Riley Automotive, and then come back able to say you have settled ALL your disputes, prove it, and we'll shut up,
Here is your chance Eric, Email Don the truth...............
Don't want to say. It was nothing official. Just wondered if it was happening to anyone else.
thanks for this warning was ready sending moneys for a steering wheel...ill save my moneys for another seller!!!
I think that he gets it. He got the money didn't he?
I've seen others that use the same business model, "once I have your money, my obligation ends". WTF
It's amazing that some of these business people resort to this mentality.
It was deleted as it is not his car and has no relevence to this thread.
Ryan! Please delete this thread. This is going to go nowhere. A lot of people are just piling on just because they can and have no dog in this fight. Sometimes this message board comraderie can be carried a little too far. No amount of bashing here is going to make him make amends to anyone. He will do it it if he feels like it.
Eric's '32 has left the states/is on it's way overseas. He owed a LOT of money-far more than he owed Ed, to another HAMBer.
The only way he could get his money, or any part of it, was by taking the '32 in on a deal.
All the deals Eric owes money on are unfortunate, and the larger money ones are unbelievable!
If you'd read and understood Ryans point for leaving it open, it's not to "make him make amends"
The point is that hopefully the next potential victim that does a Google search for " Riley Automotive " will stumble across this thread and maybe save themselves from getting ripped off.
Why does it bother you that we are trying to get some justice for another member? Riley should have been taken to task years ago when his games started, and maybe it wouldn't have gotten to this point. Everyone knew he pulled some shakey deals but he kept enough customers happy to be able to screw a few and get away with it.
If you don't like a thread, simply don't click on it.
I for one certainly understand both sides gentlemen but I feel the damage has be done. I think this thread needs to end, seems like we're beating a dead horse here. Eric will suffer in the end.
I was one of the people that started having problems several years ago with Eric. I started several threads here about this and they were shut down. This thread needs to stay so people know what a ripoff he can be.. For the people that want the thread closed why not try not reading it????
I think a sticky is not a bad idea this stuff is to easy to get lost in the mix...
Excellent! Thanks Boss.
I left my post on facebook
He has earned this trip to the 'woodshed' once and for all. Don't look if it bothers you.
Add in contacting his state representative Congressman and Senator. Sounds dumb but they wanna look like big shots protecting the average Joe also the local tv may have a consumer affairs guy that zaps fraud - hell hit up any local radio car shows - we have an old timer cars on KSTE in Sacramento Ca there may be some there too also chamber of Commerce even if he isn't a member
Thanks for the warning. With the internet his world will get a lot of looks. It cannot be good for any business.
This is really hard to watch. Eric was one of the original guys who helped me start building cars. He's helped me find what I've needed to build three hot rods. There has to be more going on than anyone knows. Or else I'm just crazy. I hope he can prove me wrong.
Well seeing no one is threatening him but rather shaming him I see no harm. After seeing his reply earlier today from his website I doubt this will work because he seems rather shameless. Ryan will pull the plug when he feels fit and this is his baby. I just can't believe that you can do something this criminal and get away with it, not the way I was raised that's for sure.
I ordered a couple thousand dollars worth of parts from him in 2005. It took about 4 months and a few emails and phone calls to get my stuff. I didnt think anything of it at the time. I took him for his word about being away and busy with a family emergency. Looks like he was just buying time with me I guess.
It sucks to see so many people have been burned by this guy.
If Eric had been upfront and had told me where I was on the pecking order and when approx. I'd get the money back I'd have waited - years if necessary.
I bet the other guy got the roadster over legal channels.
I feel sorry and apologize for yet another entitled American's attitude towards our hot rod brethren across the pond.
Riley automotive (for google search) needs to lay out a plan to repay his debtors. I spent a lot of time on his site dreaming of buying a frame from him. I'm glad I didn't.
However, anyone else notice how he signs his email eriC? I would never do business with a man who would sign an email like that. It's business , not a casual email. It shows me a lack of taking his business seriously. Not saying I wouldn't buy from a hamber with poor / childish grammar. Hell, most of my posts on the hamb suck grammatically, but then again, I'm not running a business either.
I have read all eleven pages on this thread and it seems like there are several wannabe Moderators suggesting closing this thread. Why? May I respectfully suggest that it is not your place to suggest this and it is unfair to the victim, who posted in a civilized and forthright manner, in good faith, about genuine negative experiences with a former Alliance vendor, having first cleared it with Ryan. If you were the victim you certainly would not be advocating early closure.
This is a warning to all who read this thread, and others by word of mouth, that this Eric is a serial fraudster. Ed's complaint seems entirely justified and he is not alone in being victimized. By closing this thread early you may let others fall victim to this unscrupulous scumbag. Ryan has said he will close it when he sees fit, so why not leave it to him to do that when he feels it has run it's course.
I emailed a couple of friends, asking if they could think of something to help. I assumed Ed to be a US citizen. Opps, sorry, Ed. Stuff still applies. Anyways:
" Hey, you two:
Any ideas to help this guy out?
I gave him some, but doubt he can use the real means necessary to nail this guy. So something a US citizen can use?
I should've known... .
Response from Jeff, in Texas (who has an even lower tolerance for this than I do):
To my very good friend Marcus H, and all of his great friends at HAMB. He and I forward very key stuff back and forth to each other, and HAMB material is frequently part of his forwards to me (kudos on the content). It usually makes me laugh. Not this time.
Marcus and I go waaaaaay back, our (vehicle) projects are usually quite dissimilar, but we graduated from the same auto engineering college together, giving us deep camaraderie, and we love what each other does. He's still in MN and I'm now in TX. That right there gives us "example" territory, for talking 'bout Ed L, of Germany (I feel for ya' Ed), being royally screwed by idiot Eric S of CO. Permit me to give you my 2¢-worth of thoughts about Eric and his type - in several ways.
• INTEGRITY - I was a corporate trainer in the automotive industry as a career choice, for some very big corporate names, and I trained many retail merchants on many subjects, including customer service and maintaining integrity. I would tell people that I did NOT go to a store to buy a fitted suit, expecting to eventually have the suit taken back and my money returned to me - even if they gave me 150% of the money back, because it didn't measure up to integrity expectations.
I WENT THERE TO BUY A SUIT - KEEP IT - AND BE PLEASED WITH IT FOR MANY YEARS TO COME.
No one desires to return anything, because it isn't what they expected, nor measures up to the advertised moral integrity of the item. Said in the positive - we all want to keep what we bought and we EXPECT it to be exactly as we imagined it would be. I won't get into how some wacko customers have stray imaginations here - that's a different subject. You get the point, we know what we want, and we expect it when we buy it.
More on point, Ed had a very reasonable expectation of what a complete dry lakes front end would be (especially when the multiple ads detail what it is), and he expected that completeness to be delivered from Colorado to Germany, in exchange for $2,443.89, AS PROMISED, with full integrity, by Eric, who has now proven to be a fraud.
Ed wants, and still expects that front end, dare I say, NEEDS it. 244,389 pennies won't do as a rolling front end (i.e. - the money back doesn't fill the need for a functional front end), he will still have to go elsewhere to satisfy the need he has.
• HELP FOR ED - One of the things I now do, in semi-retirement, is I own a retail store which handles parcel lacking and delivery. I handle claims like this all of the time, and I prosecute vigorously. It is easy to understand that several of our carriers, nationally and internationally, are each country's "post" systems, as well as the notable UPS, FedEx, DHL, and a few other notables like TEAM.
My advice for Ed is that they ALL have their own internal departments, typically called - Security Department. Sometimes that sounds like a dull title, but believe me, when someone from "Security" comes calling, international thugs duck and run for cover. You do not want a "security" agent on your tail for alleged fraud. That's what you've got here Ed, and you've been far too patien with this criminal.
Something you need to understand, International Tariff Law is quite enforceable, and damning when it is discovered someone has crossed the lines of the law. Many a mafia agent has rued the day he crossed the lines with simple violation of postal regulations, and even more so when he discovers he broke international tariff laws. Eric is already sorry, and he doesn't even know it.
Promise of delivery and subsequent neglect to do so, can get someone crosswise with tariff security agents real fast. You have a simple cut & dried case here Ed, International Tariff Fraud is SERIOUS stuff, and you might be surprised to know that you hold in your hands, charges that can make Eric quickly jail-able. International crimes are frowned upon heavily these days, even if Eric THINKS he's insulated deeply in the center of the USA, in Colorado. So, call the carrier who's handled your goods, pinpoint the top security official, and start the ball rolling. Your meticulous documentation will help speed things along greatly.
• RECLAIMING MONEY - Understand this point of order first, and then we'll move on. "Criminal" courts most always take precedence over "civil" courts. Meaning, criminal WILL be settled first, about a charge against a person, THEN they will move on to the civil, IF anything is left over to garnish.
Why did I tell you that? Well, if you pursue the actions I outlined above, you're going to have to see them completed before you pursue the following.
Civil courts can be completed in as little as six months, but don't count on it. The rule of thumb is it takes three to six years to achieve settlement, and you're exhausted by then. You likely will find yourself mumbling to yourself that you're glad you pursued it as a matter of ethics and principle, doing what's right, and getting what's right. But, in the end, you are also mumbling that the only winners in court are the lawyers, you won a pittance, you feel that the defendant wasn't punished enough, and you lost far-too-much time out of your life pursuing it, so the winnings were not near enough, for the aggravation.
That being said. you may still feel strongly enough about it, and WANT Eric-the-fraud fried. The first level you're looking at is small claims court amounts and liens (some states allow you to sue for three-times the face value of the ticket-purchase prices, and to include some ancillary costs, but there ARE caps on how much you can sue for).
Not all states allow you to sue in small claims court, AND include lawyer's fees as part of the winnings (hence - SMALL claims). You CAN represent yourself, and you CAN have a lawyer assist you, even represent you, just don't expect winnings to pay for the lawyer.
The end result of a court case is a judgment. Judgments are "satisfied" and "Justice" is brought to bear. Word to the wise, in civil court, unscrupulous thugs, like Eric is proving to be, know that all that happens is the court sends a sheriff out to collect, but the citizen CAN say, "No," with the sheriff holding no right to enforce, nor to use force, and all that happens is that there is a "record" in the county records of a judgment against the person. Unscrupulous people find ways to move on to other counties, and states even. So, the "record" of a bad court "judgment" only holds water if the person fears his "credit rating" being smeared.
A lien is entered in a county's records, when a contract exists (a good friend here in the states could do it for you Ed, if you give him specific POA [power of attorney]). It must be a signed "contract" that the supplier intended to deliver such and such. Whether you have such an action-able contract, in the form of your sales purchase invoice, credit card records, and some delivered goods, would be the subject of a professional opinion rendered by a lawyer. A simple lien can prevent Eric from selling his business before you are satisfied, and bankruptcy on his part is not admissible until you are satisfied in-full (as compared to in-part, example 10¢ on the dollar) as a FIRST-creditor to him. Just some thoughts.
Another rung-level up the legal-food-chain would be to go after "loss of business" and "false advertising claims." Find EVERY form and forum he advertises in and squawk as loudly as you can to the board of directors, other advertisers, and editors in charge, that he IS causing you to lose business, AND THEY are allowing it to happen, hence - accomplices to the fact from this time forward.
It goes on from there. "Good" lawyers CAN find all sorts of stuff to throw at a profligate like Eric, given the chance. Ed, don't be afraid of being in Germany and Eric-the-fake being in Colorado, there are plenty of folks who will gladly represent you, some may even be on HAMB, who knows?
All you need to do is ask honest simple questions, and you'll be pointed in the right direction. I'd start with the Better Business Bureau in Commerce City, Colorado, then the county attorney general for Adams County, Colorado, then the State's Attorney General for Colorado. When you have been wronged like you have, Ed, you'll be surprised at how many allies will back you, to see justice prevail.
Remember this, the USA has the largest armed standing army in the world, in the form of its hunters, and hunters like nothing more than finding and exposing poachers like Eric.
• WORD OF MOUTH FIRE - Last, and certainly not least, Eric has lost sight of a VERY important marketing principle. Every one of us, at ANY given time, knows a minimum of 500 people. Word about flaming idiots spreads faster than 2011 Texas Wildfires. Wanna see what the match head just lit?
- Marcus got his knickers in a twist from reading a bunch of other match heads on HAMB, then he told me.
- I have been in the automotive industry since 1975, I am known professionally around the world for my work, and I have MANY friends in the "Rodder" end of the biz. Bang, this letter is seen by most of them, right now.
Want an idea of how deeply we're scratching a surface?
- Many deep suppliers for Specialty Equipment Manufacturer's Association (SEMA), like influential executives for Pennzoil/ Quaker State, DuPont, General Motors
- Both the Automotive Oil Change Association (AOCA) and the International Carwash Association (ICA).
- Several regulars as top feature display-article cars in magazines like Rodder's Journal, Rod & Kustom, and more
- Many people in the kit car industry.
- Quite a few commercial and motorsports country club track operators.
The list goes on for quite some time. Eric WILL notice a gray swarm of flies surrounding the carcass that WAS once his business, fairly soon, and no amount of begging will resurrect his tainted dreams. Give Bernie Madoff a call Eric, he may rent you some cell-space to warm your pathetic personage in the winter. We have no pity for pathetic people like yourself.
Jeff In TX - where rods are driven YEAR 'round, and NEVER rust yeah right!
As one of the comments on his FB page said it best......."social media at it's best"
The wrath of the HAMB. Roll baby roll.
And I feel bad when I have to turn someone down on doing a trailer repair on the spot and asking for them to leave it for a day or so.
Good Luck to Edward and to all the victims of this low life, Eric of Riley Automotive.
Reputation , Difficult to earn a good one .
Easy to earn a bad one !
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