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Technical REVISITED: Shoebox hood hinges - GRRRR

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by '49 Ford Coupe, Feb 21, 2016.

  1. After trying to re-install the hinge firewall bracket (it simply will NOT install) with the rear tab on top of the firewall lip, I decided that it must have come from the factory installed on the bottom of the firewall lip. The ONLY thing that makes sense at this point is that I bought the hood bracket from a junkyard and I did not see the car it came off of. Then I got to thinking ...."what if the hood bracket came off of a '50 or '51?" ... I just called the junkyard and left a message for the guy who owns it and personally took it off the car he had, to attempt to see if he remembers the subject car and if it was or wasn't a '49.

    When the hood is closed, and adjusted so that it is as far forward as possible, it still hangs on the little ridge at the rear, but it also leaves about a 3/8" gap between the hood and the matching ridge on the firewall (picture below). As soon as one begins to lift it, the hood shifts back and hits the ridge.

    Here is the question... Does anybody know if, for sure, there is a difference between the hood bracket between a '49 and a '50 or '51 ??

    Thanks in advance, guys.. this is driving me crazy....

    20160302_160547.jpg
     
  2. Just hung up the phone after a conversation with Chris at ShoeBox Central. My "junkyard hood bracket" is a DANG '50 or '51, and my hinges are '49. THAT was / is the problem. By the way, he told me that if the hood hinge bracket has "loose nuts" to bolt it to the hood, it's a '49, and if the bracket has "captured nuts" on the bracket, it's a '50 or '51.... mystery SOLVED... now I just need to get some '50 or '51 hinges.....grrrrr
     
  3. Here is what I know for sure. I have a 51 Ford here. (my avitar car) I posted you photos of that cars under Hood hinge set up. I also have a 1950 Hood. I just went and looked at it. The rear brace where the hinges bolt to the hood looks Identical as my 51. Neither of them have anything hanging below the lower edge of the Hood like the Photo of your 49 does. I think I can safely say you can't bolt a 50 Hood to 49 hinges and vise versa. I looks to me everything you have is all 49. Wish I could be more help.
    The Wizzard
     
  4. Thanks, Pist...(hahaha) and to everybody else who have tried to pitch in to solve this mystery....

    Here is a picture of the hood bracket that I bought at the junkyard last summer. You can see that the bracket has capture nuts on it, unlike what the '49 is supposed to have, so the bracket is definitely a '50 or '51. Sooooo.. now I'm awaiting a return call from the junkyard to see if he has a set of '50 or '51 hinges.... Seems $190 bucks for a pair "at retail" is a bit steep for me.. hood hinge.jpg
     
  5. I'd like you to look very close to the first Photo I posted on post 15 here. It very clearly shows the Hinge bolt flange. It is nothing at all like the brace you have posted of your hood hinge mounts. I still don't think you've answered where your problem is. The way I read this is that if you mount 50/51 hinges to the brace you currently have your hood will stand around 1-1/2" above your cowell. The center of the hinge bolt hole on the 50 hood is 3/4" ABOVE the lower flange of the hood brace. About 5/8" below the hood skin itself. Not bolt flange ears hanging below the bottom edge of the hood. Look at photo 15 and compair.
    The Wizzard
     
  6. Buddy Palumbo
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Posts: 3,870

    Buddy Palumbo
    Member

    I'll have to look when I get home, but I believe my 49 has captive nuts on the hood brace. More importantly, the brace has only 2 bolts per side of the hood, where IIRC the 50-51 has 3 per side . This is all going on my memory, of course ;) . My car has a 50 hood, using a 49 hood brace , BTW .
     
  7. DAMN...... you are correct, Wizzard..... then that brings up another question... is there a difference between '50 and '51?.. holy crap now I'm getting confused..... wonder if Ford change something in mid year?... That hood bracket of yours is definitely different from mine. Wonder if Chris was incorrect in his information about the capture nuts.. Since I never saw the damned car that it came off of........could be a Mercury or something..... this is toooo friggin' weird...
     
  8. Buddy Palumbo
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Posts: 3,870

    Buddy Palumbo
    Member

    OK, just for gone from church and ran down to the garage to look at my sled. My hinges sit on top of the cowl flange , and the hood brace has 2 bolts per side with welded/captive nuts. Is it correct ? I dunno ;)
     
  9. Here is another hands on Fact I can tell you. The 1950 hood I have in house came off a very nice and complete project. I litterly just bolted a 1951 Hood to the stock 1950 hinges. It only took minor and expected adjustment to get good fender hood gap and movement.
    The Wizzard
     
  10. Ok, guys thanks for ALL the feedback. I am proceeding with locating a set of '50/'51 hinges and hood bracket.
     
  11. I'm a little late to this conversation but I went through this a few years back. I hated my 49 hinges so I found a 50 at a junkyard. I know you stated you are going to look for the 50-51 so I thought I would post some pics for you.

    Hood Brace 002.jpg Hood Brace 009.jpg Hood Brace 006.jpg Hood Brace 014.jpg Hood Brace 016.jpg Hood Brace 021.jpg Hood Brace 020.jpg Hood Brace 029.jpg
     
  12. Buddy Palumbo
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Posts: 3,870

    Buddy Palumbo
    Member

    Thanks for posting the pics ! My car will probably get a set of '50 hood hinges before it gets painted. The last thing I want is to finally get it in color, then screw it all up the first time I lift the hood .
    '49 hinges suck
     
  13. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 6,958

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    I have a set of 51 hinges[what bolts to the cowl]..PM me if interested..In CT..
     
  14. And finally........Thanks again guys for taking the time to teach an old man more details of what goes into building a car....

    Though it makes no difference now.........the only unanswered "thing" is why in the hell were my hinges mounted with the rear tab of the hinges mounted to the bottom of the lip and everybody else's is on the top of the lip............ (which seems to be half the problems created ........).....nobody needs to answer.... it's just weird.....
     
  15. Well, guys.... I thought I had the situation taken care of....ordered a pair of hinges from a guy in Kansas, and they BOTH are bent. I got down with my blacksmithing skills, but not very satisfied with the outcome. SOOOOO I'm right back were I started. I still need a pair of hinges and a hood hinge bracket. Anybody out there that can help me out??????
     
  16. Pony up the $ and get them from Shoebox Central?
     
  17. tubman
    Joined: May 16, 2007
    Posts: 5,639

    tubman
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Well, Ford did advertise : "The new 1950 Ford - better in fifty ways!" I wonder what the other 49 were?
     
  18. I don't understand this photo.
    [​IMG]

    After welding the cross brace to the Hood skin how do you get final fit and finish to hood gap and latch fit?
    The Wizzard
     
  19. In other words, Why would you do this?
     
  20. Buddy Palumbo
    Joined: Mar 30, 2008
    Posts: 3,870

    Buddy Palumbo
    Member

    Just happen to think about it, there's a guy here in eastern PA that parts out shoeboxes. His name is Chris Robbins and his number is 610-442-2187 . He's a nice dude. I've bought stuff from him in the past and he's very reasonable price-wise and will ship stuff out.
     
  21. Thanks Buddy. Will call him.
     
  22. Kiwi Tinbender
    Joined: Feb 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,155

    Kiwi Tinbender
    Member

    Keep us in the loop on this. I have a 49 in the shop that I have to do the same thing to. I have had trouble with 49 hood and hinge stuff before, and am going to 50-51 on this car. Never too old to learn. Of course it helps that Mike (Pist-n-broke) is close by and a big help on stuff....
     
  23. Looking at the pictures, I am starting to remember the bolt holes do not line up. I believe I had to fit it, drill a couple holes to adjust it, tack it and weld it in once it fit. It's been a few years since this.
     
  24. REVISITED, AGAIN....
    Well, I got my replacement '50/'51 hinges and hood bracket the other day.. derusted, blasted, painted the bracket and decided before I cleaned up the hinges completely, I would do a "fit check"........well........

    It appears that the hood would open ok, but when closed, the curvature doesn't match the firewall, and the ends of the hood near where the mounts are, are both about 3/8" too low.. Has anybody else run into this ???

    When you look down the edges of the hood, it does not look like the hood is bent..it has a slight curve that seems to match the fender curve....

    Question is... does one just shim the hinge mounting bolts/bracket to raise it?...seems like that's the only way to get the ends of the hood back up where it needs to be... and then the center of the dang hood will be 3/8" high in the center.. the bracket seems to hug the hood all the way across as it should be... weird...
    [/ATTACH] 20160416_142040.jpg 20160416_142030.jpg 20160416_142013.jpg
     
  25. That almost looks like your hinges are too close together creating a bow on the top of the hood. I didn't have that problem with mine.
     
  26. Well,,, dang... the "new" hood hinge bracket seems to be thicker/stiffer/stronger than the old '49 bracket... and when aligning bolt holes and putting the pivot pins in, there was hardly any "stress" sideways... I DO believe that I'll have to shim the bracket to the hood along the top of the bracket.. PLUS I don't have the rubber strip in place... once I find it (ya know what I mean), I'll see how that does to hold the curvature more correct..by the way, I just shimmed up both hinges about 3/8" and things are much better....I think my car is a queer......ahahahah
     
  27. Maybe this will make you feel a bit better. Look close at the first 2 photos I posted. They are of the Pass side hinge of my car. You'll notice there are 3 flat washers between the hinge and flange. Look at the drive side and none at all. This is what it took to get the corner up where it belonged. And your right it raised up the center. That had to be fixed. And, this is the original Hood. Ya just gotta have a little Body Man in ya to bring these 65 year Old cars up to todays fit and finish. Don't be afraid to Knock things around a bit. Old cars are a bit like Teenagers, you can't always talk nice nice to get them to do what you want. I actually blocked the corners a bit high and used a 2x4 and my Maul to SMACK the center till I liked the fit. No it didn't damage the skin.
    The Wizzard
     
  28. Thanks, Wizz...............I went ahead this afternoon and put "this" on the passenger side, and 6 on the drivers's side .......looks better..still have to get that rubber temporarily on the firewall top to maybe "hold things" ......

    20160416_155704.jpg
     
  29. Yikes! That seems a bit extreme. Wish I was close enough to lend ya a hand. I have a friend with a 49 and stock hinges. Maybe I should drive my 51 over and do some compairing to the 2 of them. I just remembered I may have a partial answer in the shop. I'll be back.
    The Wizzard
     
  30. Thanks, Wiz.....
    Well, guys, I've been sitting here pondering this thing.....This just occurred to me. I better take the time to fit the fenders back on.... I looked at them again last night and it looks like the last foot or so of the top of the fender is nearly straight with no curve. The hood is curved all the way down... hell maybe the hood is bent or something.. when i bought the car, it was missing the hood bracket, so I never saw the hood "mounted". Soooo.... will keep ya'll informed when I find out what the hell is going on here...
     

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