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Technical Reverse rotation steering box

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by chip Romano, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    Hello H.A.M.B first time user here. I’m building a 1930 A V8 with 32 frame. Has been lowered front and rear. Front has split wishbone. Looking for a pre ‘53 steering box to use. I have an F1 box now. Mounted on frame with shaft coming out side of frame. Want to have the pitman arm point up instead of down. Appreciate any advise.


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  2. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,147

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So, you want to increase bump steer?
     
  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,519

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    There are Gemmer-made boxes that look just like F-1 boxes in some old Chris Craft boats of the 50's. The pitman in these points up instead of down, and they mount with a handy pillow block that could be adapted to your frame. Check your local vintage boat junkyard.
     
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  4. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,917

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Normally a Deuce frame chassis doesn't sit so low that you would have an issue with the Pitman arm facing down if the chassis is done right. You want the drag link to run parallel with the wish bones when you are done and I am going to assume that is the issue or interference with the bone is an issue unless it is one of those rat rod abortions where the frame is two inches off the ground.
     
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  5. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 308

    sdroadster
    Member

    Chris craft like this, the pitman must point up to get the front wheels to steer correctly. It takes Ford parts, and uses a Ford pitman arm and steering wheel. P.M me if your interested. I live in California, so consider the shipping costs.... chris craft steering 003.JPG chris craft steering 007.JPG
     
  6. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    Yes. I love a challenge. Especially while driving


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  7. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    Thanks. I will see if I can find one


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  8. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    No it’s not “a rat rod abortion where the frame is two inches off the ground”, although I believe if that’s what someone wants to do it’s their car and their money. My issue is the angle of the drag link because of the length of the pitman arm and I would rather not have what controls the steering be the lowest part of the car


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  9. Pictures?
     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 26,917

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool, that is an issue that needs to be addressed. I just see so many RR abortions around here that when a guy asks about something out of the norm that is the first thing that comes to mind. I went out and looked at a non Ford box I have today thinking a guy could do some trimming on the casting and flip the box over but it won't work. It will work to make a right hand drive but not flipped over for left hand drive.
    I would take a lot of cutting and grinding on the housing to remove the brackets but the Falcon/Mustang little rear wheel drive early/mid 60's Ford boxes got used on a lot of rods with a bracket that ran the sector shaft out under the frame rail with the pitman arm facing up it should work the way you want. A lot of cutting, grinding and fitting and welding the flange on like we do with Ford F 1 boxes ala Vern Tardel. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/mustang-steering-boxes.1107423/ Those show them going under the rail but no reason you can't modify one to go though the rail and I think a rod trinket shop or two have those straight pitman arms.
    You need to use a tad bit of imagineering here though. mustang steering 1.jpg
     
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  11. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,519

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes, if you aren't scared of doing a little welding on the box to mod the mount, a Mustang might be the better solution. There's lots of them, parts are available cheaper than for F-1, and they are a recirculating ball design, which will give smoother steering than the F-1 can.
     
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  12. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,852

    sunbeam
    Member

  13. F-head
    Joined: Oct 20, 2007
    Posts: 582

    F-head
    Member

    You can use a 32/4 steering box with 35/6 internals and it will work with the pittman arm pointing up
    I had that setup in my old 28 roadster
    Worked Fine
    Not roller sector though
     
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  14. Casual 6
    Joined: May 25, 2008
    Posts: 232

    Casual 6
    Member
    from Great NW

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  15. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 11,458

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    It is a nice piece, but only solves one part of the problem. Correct geometry of the linkage in relation to suspension components is the primary determinant of successfully transplanting a steering box or R&P.

    Ray
     
  16. bchctybob
    Joined: Sep 18, 2011
    Posts: 2,215

    bchctybob
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Welcome Chip. There's three great solutions to your problem in just sixteen posts.
    You will find that most everyone on here is willing to be helpful with information and sometimes even with the parts you may need, BUT, as you've already seen the really knowledgeable folks on here are reluctant to help someone build something that incorporates poor engineering or is just plain unsafe. Of course there are varying levels of O.C.D. from member to member. Lol. The fact that you are concerned about what is vulnerable under the car seems to show you are in the frame of mind that fits in well here.
    Good luck with your project. Post pix, everyone loves pictures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  17. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,675

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    Not correct. You want the junction of the pitman arm and drag link to be inline with the pivot point of the wishbone, not parallel. Parallel will result in bump steer.

    To the OP, what you are describing what you want is shown in the bottom pic, and that will result in bump steer. Probably not the best solution to your problem. As others have said, why don't you post pics of what you have and let some of the more knowledgeable builders around here give you some ideas to help?
    Bump Steer Image.jpg
     
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  18. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    Imagineering Is key. Looking for pre ‘53


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  19. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    I have the box out of it at the moment to see what If I can do anything with this box


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  20. Pictures of your setup would help a ton
     
  21. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 4,005

    Ned Ludd
    Member

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  22. butch27
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 2,825

    butch27
    Member

     
  23. butch27
    Joined: Dec 10, 2004
    Posts: 2,825

    butch27
    Member

    What years of Chris Craft ??
     
  24. sdroadster
    Joined: Jul 27, 2006
    Posts: 308

    sdroadster
    Member

    This is an old Street Rod Magazine drawing published during the Pete and Jake era. Since bump steer is a function of suspension travel, it seems logical that we would limit the travel to kill the potential bump steer. No car that I know of has 4 inches of ride. Install a suspension snubber, and design your drag link how ever you like. My Phaeton in build now has 1 1/2 inches of ride, and a parallel drag link. I been building cars a long time. Don't over think it. more tub 001.JPG
     
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  25. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 4,675

    Blues4U
    Member
    from So Cal

    That car has the stock unsplit wishbone, the geometry & bump steer being discussed doesn't apply to that application.
     
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  26. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

  27. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    Thanks. There are several ideas I am looking further into from some members. I will post pictures as soon as I have the box back in it so everyone can see the issue I am dealing with. Yes, my first concern is always making any mods safe. Love the forum and how helpful everyone is


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  28. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    Great!! That answered a lot of questions. This was a project that had been started when I got it. The info I was going by was that drag link should be parallel with wishbone which I was trying to achieve. Thanks for this info. It will be very helpful.


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  29. chip Romano
    Joined: May 2, 2020
    Posts: 12

    chip Romano

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]



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  30. If you decide to keep your existing arrangement with the pitman arm facing down, you can still improve the situation. Your photo shows the steering arm with the tie rod end above it. Merely turning the arm over so that the tie rod end is below will help. You can also reshape the steering arm to have it bend down to follow the shape of the axle. This will allow you to get the drag link lower to help the geometry.
     

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