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Technical Removing horn ring 1953 Customline + more

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Mikko_, May 24, 2021.

  1. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 372

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    I have some trouble getting my brake lights and turn signals to work properly.
    Right side brake works, and right side turn if I wiggle the lever a bit.
    Left side brake don't work at all (bulb is ok) and I can get the left turn signal indicator to light up but not flashing.

    I'm thinking that I need to remove the horn ring and steering wheel to get to the turn signal switch and clean it since I can get some function out of it when I wiggle it and I also have a serious voltage drop from the turn signal lever to the junction block under the dash.
    I have 6 volts in and out of the flasher relay, but only about 4 volts out of the turn signal lever.

    I understand that I need to push down on the horn ring and turn it counter clockwise, but do I need to remove the small screws on the backside of the steering wheel before turning the horn ring?
     
    jaracer likes this.
  2. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 29,826

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm thinking the answer is yes. If memory serves right those keep the ring from turning when you don't want it to.
     
    Mikko_ likes this.
  3. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,156

    jaracer
    Member

    I don't have any help on the horn ring, but good job of checking for voltage drops. Yes you do have a problem in the TS switch or wiring. It should come out within 0.1 volt of what is going in. Voltage drops are more critical on a 6 volt system since you don't have a lot to start with.
     
    Mikko_ likes this.
  4. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 372

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    That's what I thought but ran out of time today to try it out.
    Making a new attempt tomorrow.

    I shined a flashligt between the steering wheel and column to try and see the inside of the switch and it looks like it's full of dust/spiders web/dirt etc.

    Hopefully cleaning that out will cure the problem, atleast I know my flasher relay and brake light switch works.
     

  5. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 372

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    So, I got the horn ring and steering wheel off without breaking anything.
    Cleaned the switch and everything is almost the same as before, RH brake and turn signals work front and back.
    LH brake don't work and not the rear turn signal, but now the front LH turn signal lights up but don't flash.

    Also noticed that the RH turn signals flash very rapidly and I think I would like to try another flasher relay.
    So todays question is, can I use a 3 prong flasher (which is easily available) and just leave the P terminal empty since my flasher today is a 2 prong?
    Or do I need to do something else to make it work?
     
  6. Check grounds
     
  7. Zax
    Joined: May 21, 2017
    Posts: 251

    Zax
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. 1952-59 Ford Social Group

    Yep, excellent advice. Very good chance the root of the issue is one or more bad grounds.
     
  8. The lights on those cars are grounded through the light housing, so a bad ground usually means the housing isn't making good electrical contact with the body sheetmetal. Easy way to check... If your park/taillights work, watch what they do when on and operating the turns. If they blink, go dim or out when you turn on the respective side turn, you have a bad ground. If no difference, the problem is probably in the switch, the wire from the switch to the lamp, or the lamp socket. If it is a grounding issue, remove the attaching hardware for the housing and clean any rust/corrosion and reinstall. Also check how clean/tight the socket is in the housing. The sockets are pressed in, make sure it's making good contact with the housing.
     
  9. vtx1800
    Joined: Oct 4, 2009
    Posts: 1,329

    vtx1800
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If, after ascertaining that you have good grounds, you may have to disassemble the turn signal switch and clean the contacts. I had a similar issue with the turn signal switch in the Stude. My switch was gummy with dried "stuff" as well as tarnished terminals.
    If you do.............pull it out and put it on the bench, sometimes little parts sometimes want to exit at a high rate of speed. I thought I might have a picture when I disassembled the unit in the Stude but I didn't. I would guess the switch was manufactured with similar technology, bend the tabs that hold the insulating strip, carefully remove it and clean and reassemble.
    Good Luck
     
  10. garyf
    Joined: Aug 11, 2006
    Posts: 242

    garyf
    Member

    A bad signal flasher will blink faster when the turn signal is switched to the side of the car that has the longest run of wiring to the lights from the switch.(more load). The third prong on your flasher operates your dash indicators on some cars
     
  11. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 372

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    Thanks for everyones input.

    Today I had the switch all apart as @vtx1800 suggested and everything inside looks fine.
    With the voltmeter I verified that I have 6 volts on both the X and L prong on the flasher.
    The switch assembly itself is bare metal to bare metal on the column.
    But I have 0 volts on the left rear turn signal bulb (and left rear parking light works fine when the switch is set to left).

    So somewhere between the turn signal switch and left rear bulb there must be a break in the wire?
    Looking at the junction block under the dash it looks kinda crusty so I think that will be my next target to check for bad connection.
    Also going to test it with another flasher relay too.

    I have 7 wires going into the turn signal:

    LH front turn
    LH rear turn
    RH front turn
    RH rear turn
    6V in from the flasher
    Brake light switch I think?
    And what is the 7th?
     
  12. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 372

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    Let's say the flasher has gone bad: so the right side turn signals (longer wires than the left side) gives it enough resistance to blink but too fast.
    And the shorter wires on the left side doesn't give enough resistance to start blinking, but enough to light up without blinking.

    Did I understand you correctly?
    If so, maybe I have a combination of a bad flasher and a broken wire to the left rear since that is totally dead at all times?
     
  13. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,156

    jaracer
    Member

    Make the LH brake light work and the LH turn signals should work.

    I don't remember how the 3 prong was wired, but if you get a 2 prong HD flasher it will flash regardless of current draw.
     
  14. Let's clear up a few things first... You have either a bad switch, a broken wire, or a very bad connection preventing your left rear brake/turn light from working. Wire length has nothing to do with this. That seventh wire is for a lamp to illuminate your gear selector indicator because you have a Fordomatic. This should have power on it when the dash lights are on.

    The first thing I'd check is your turn switch. Unplug it from the harness under the dash (keeping track of which wire goes where) and use your continuity meter to check the switch. With the switch disconnected, you should find THREE wires that read to each other when the switch is in the 'OFF' position, and ONLY three. These wires will be the left and right rear brake/turn lights and the brake light power input from the brake switch. If you don't find this, only two wires that read to each other, your switch is bad and you'll need to pull it out. Probable problem is either a bad contact to the left rear or the wire to that contact has broken; I'd suspect a broken wire as these do break over enough time. It may be possible to repair the switch, but you may need a replacement.

    If you do find three wires that read to each other, the switch is functioning and the problem is in the harness between the plug and the light. Start tracing the left rear wire, looking for breaks or dirty plug connections. This can be a real pain in the ass, but there's no help for it. It just takes time and patience.

    After you sort this out, then I'd worry about the flasher. To check the turn wiring, reconnect the turn switch and connect the two flasher wires together to verify the lights are coming on. Also check at this time that your left/right dash indicator lights are working. If they're not, that may be the 'missing' load that's preventing the flasher from working right.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
    Mikko_ likes this.
  15. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,927

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

  16. Mikko_
    Joined: Aug 3, 2018
    Posts: 372

    Mikko_
    Member
    from Sweden

    I'm very pleased to say that everything is working now.

    The wire between the left rear turn signal/brake light and junction block under the dash is broken somewhere so for the time being I just ran a new wire.

    The inspection to get the Swedish title and plates is on monday afternoon so I was running out of time to make a permanent solution.
    Long term plan is to replace the whole harness.

    Thanks to everyone for their help.
     
  17. garyf
    Joined: Aug 11, 2006
    Posts: 242

    garyf
    Member

    I don't think I need you to answer my questions.If you could read correctly ,I told the man why his signal flasher would blink faster when bad, When switched to a certain side .I was not diagnosing his electrical problems.
    If you think my information is incorrect maybe you should take it up with ASE.This is a question asked in their test for Automotive Service Excellence testing
     

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