Hey guys. I've just picked up a 440 that's out of a 68 Coronet. I've never seen it run but I know the previous owner and it's got about 100,000 miles on it and was running like a dream when the car it was in got written off. In a perfect world I'd throw 4 grand at it and have it rebuilt but I haven't got that much spare cash floating around. My next option was to just drop it straight into my car and use it but I figure after 45 years the water jackets must be full of crap and who knows how much carbon build up is inside it. So, I'm thinking about stripping it down and giving it just a refresh with a dip in the hot tank and some new rings and bottom end bearings. I'll probably throw in a new cam, chain, lifters and springs whilst I'm at it. Any tricks for new players doing a quick freshen up like this? Naturally the amount I'll have to do depends to a large degree on what I find when I pull it down. If the bore is gouged or something like that then I'm screwed and will have to go down the full rebuild path. Has anyone done a quick freshen up like this and had decent results? Cheers Scott Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
All depends on the condition. I did what you are talking about to a slant 6 many years ago. Bearings, rings, honed the cylinder, lapped the valves, new oil pump. That motor ran great. But I don't know for how long, I sold the car about a year later.
if you can get that rebuilt in Australia for 4k then just do that. I would like to see that though as last motor I got done I had over 2k just in machine work on the block. add your heads in there and you will be up to nearly your 4k with out any parts. what your talking about I call my patented dodgy bros rebuild. Usually comprises of rings gasket kit and the bare minimum of other things to keep the motor going. BUT!!!!! I do this as I am usually in the process of building up a nice motor for the same car. I have done this a few times and have had decent results out of it. the only motor that has died on me is the one I bolted a blower ontop of as it was 5 years down the track and I was nearly finished the 'good' blower motor and just wanted to have some fun ( had put it down the track too) it busted a skirt off the piston. So, to answer your question, YES, have done it and it can be done and it will work, but it has a life span, I would work on 5 years. I would also say that to get that motor rebuilt here would be 8-10k not 4, but you may be on good terms with an engine builder, but parts alone would add up to probably close to 2k. I love the 440's , had one myself years ago. got a big block olds now. Mopar make a fine motor, always have.
Measure the taper in the cylinder bores....if there is more than a thousandth or two, then it will wear out the rings early. I've done several "freshen" overhauls, how long they last is pretty much proportional to the taper in the bores. 5 thousandths gives you maybe 20k miles at best. How much do you plan to drive the car?
I wouldn't bother disassembling it if I didn't have the money for a decent rebuild. Why spend all that labor for questionable results? Carbon is no problem and can be cleaned out with the engine running. A timing chain is a maintenance issue and inexpensive. I'd build an engine stand of some sort, hook up the starter, and give it a compression test. I'd pull the intake manifold and inspect the cam and valve train. Pull the pan and inspect the oil screen and the bottom end. If everything looks good and it has good compression, install it and see how she runs. Meanwhile start saving for the rebuild.
The reason I've done several "freshens" is that it fixes the leaks, gets new bearings and other iffy parts replaced, and doesn't cost a whole lot. But that was also years ago when shop labor was more affordable. The big thing in my mind is how much you plan to drive the car. If it will take 20 years to put 20k miles on it, then you're probably going to want to do something at that time just because it's been so long, and a cheap overhaul now would make sense, especially if it's all you can afford to do. If you're going to drive the car a lot, and you can afford a full rebuild, and you don't like messing with things down the road, then go for it. It's not a decision we can make for you
Go for it man. I had a Ford 289 that I tore apart, cleaned, cut the ridges off the bores with a ridge reamer, CHECKED the bearings (as in, reused) and put it all back together with new gaskets. Hell, I don't think I even changed out the cam. Found a set of heads at the local machine shop that had been sitting that I got for the price of labor, so about $300. All told, maybe a grand into the engine. Ran it that way for about 20k miles. Started to burn oil, so that's when I went ahead and put money into it. Could I have spent more? Sure. DId I want to get it running and drive the piss out of it? Yes. And I had a second car in case it blew up on me. That's an important thing to consider. Just my .02. Mike
I put many 100,000 mile motors in my old vehicles,just clean them up and remove all freeze plugs to flush the block and replace whats obviously wrong and if it was a good motor before it was pulled it should be now,definately replace the timing chain while its out. Back in 85 I put a 100,000 plus miles 59 Olds 371 in my 53 Olds and I think it was still in it a couple years ago and I sold it 10 years ago.
I don't know if it is just me, but every time I've attempted to convince myself that I will just tear this engine down, check it out "and do just the minimum" . . . I end up finding stuff and rebuilding it. Just seems to be the way it works out. With that said, I'm a bit picky and just can't stand to throw stuff back together once I look inside! I'd check it out as is (compression, etc) - if it looks good, put a new oil pump in it, maybe a timing chain and 3/4 style cam and run it. Then make a concentrated effort to save your money for good quality parts (you can use eBay to get deals over time) - probably pay 1/2 price for stuff if you're patient and know what you're doing. Then - in a couple years, rebuild it the right way. BUT - this all assumes you have another car and reliable transportation in the meantime. It is still a crap shoot. If you bother to take it all apart - just plan on rebuilding it!
I'm glad to see this post, as I'm trying to decide what to do with my cars, a 1957 Studebaker with a 289, and a 1954 Lincoln with a Y block 317. Neither one would be cheap to rebuild, and I kinda need to stay on the cheap, so..
You're right Flatoz, when I mentioned that 4 grand for a rebuild I was using it as a starting point. I think it'd consume closer to 10. I have seen businesses selling reco motors for less than 5 grand but then there's freight on top and who knows what the quality is. It's a weekend toy car so I'd be lucky to 5000k a year. I figure if I get 4-5 years out of it then it's worth my time. Besides, it'd shit me to tears if I went to all the trouble of swapping it into my car then when I started it there was a leaking main seal or something. I'll take a few pics of my progress and post them in here just in case anyone is interested. Thanks for your help guys Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Bored&Stroked has it right. Being the cheap-ass I am, I have done far more quickie-freshen-ups than I have done full rebuilds. As long as the compression and leakdown tests come out good, I'd say slap on a set of headers and decent intake and run it. Maybe toss on a double roller timing set for good measure.
As Squirrel said. It will get you by for quite some time. I have done many of them on daily driver cars. Used the same motor in more than one car or truck. 20K or better. Never cooked them if the looked reasonably clean, new cam bearing, rings, bearings, lap the valves. Not much different than an in-truck rebuild on a big truck.
Page 9-95 of the 1968 Dodge service manual gives the allowable cylinder bore taper as .010" on the 383 and 440 engines. A 100,000 mile engine might just come under this spec. If you go with this type of freshening, don't expect to rev it too much or drive it as if it were a new engine - you end up with ring float at the higher R's. Definitely replace freeze plugs,and a block flush. BTW, is there as much gravitational pull in Oz as in NA? Your engines might just wear better than ours do north of the tropic of Cancer!
I did this a couple of times when I was a kid. My dad was an engineer and had a good set of micrometers, so I had an advantage. I would use a hone to reduce the taper in the cylinders. The guys at the tool rental place hated me. I have a 42K '50 flathead that sat in a garage for over 50 years that I am going to do next summer. I have the rings and gaskets I need from a little horse-trading. A buddy is going to face the valves gratis so the only thing I may need is a set of rod bearings. We'll see how cheap a flathead can be done these days.
I've done dozens of these "freshen 'er up and go" rebuilds. Around here during the heyday of GM, hourly workers would come in with a second car they had bought cheap and wanted to get a couple of years service while participating in the shift change parking lot "demolition Derby". Most survived seven day a week work schedules for 2-4 years without a whimper and when phased out of service it was usually because the body was ready to fall off the frame thanks to the liberal use of salt on the roads. Frank
Hot tanking it will ruin the cam bearings. I have done a few 'ring and bearings' engines,(oil pump and timing chain too) and have had good luck/service from them.
Yes the cam bearings will be junk if you hot tank. Ask any engine rebuilder about bbchryslers and cam bearings,watch their face cringe. They are tricky at best and are plagued with cam tunnel alignment issues. Installation on these are not for the novice. Btw squirrel said it best,listen to his words of wisdom.
All of his looks like good advice. I might have missed but did anyone mention a ridge reamer? It is a tool used to remove the ring wear groove at the top of the cylinder. If you fail to remove that ridge you will destroy the piston grooves and or top ring. The old top ring made it's home but the new ring will strike it and something will fail.
I think for the labor involved I would change oil and filters, rebuild the ignition system and carb and put it in the car and drive it until I had a problem then you know what you need.
Thanks again for the advice gents. It all comes down to managing the risk of installing a relatively unknown engine into my car. The car is a fun, weekend car so it won't be doing massive mileage. If it lasts 4 to 5 years then I'll be happy and get it rebuilt then. I'll pull it down and see what I'm dealing with. If the bearings and bores are worn then chances are it wouldn't have lasted much longer anyway and it saves me the hassle of dropping it in my car. If it's in fair shape then a freshen up certainly won't hurt it anyway. Cheers Scotty Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
Done lots of Rings-and-Bearings jobs. With a valve job, some go 100K before needing more work. Minimum 20K , average 50K and a whole lot cheaper than a full redo.
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