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Projects Redoing an old Gasser, and telling a good story.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by volvobrynk, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    I forgot to at that most parts are very widely available in the U.K., what I needed to know was, will Buick valve covers and intake fit. All the other stuff I find in the U.K., despite most rovers run a dual Stromberg variable Venturi set up, think SU carbs.

    According to Summit, the intake fits, and is easier to find it there and paint it.
    Valve covers, I'm still at a loss.
     
  2. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 38,672

    loudbang
    Member

    You are on the right track it you are going to make it as light a possible within your strict rules. If you can't up the horsepower then you have to lower the weight. One other thing is then TRACTION. Being very light with even that V-8 you need to capture every torque that is trying to escape in smoke from spinning tires. :rolleyes: So make it as light as
    you can and work the suspension and rear tires as allowed to get the best traction you can and it will be a winner.

    What does "safety hubs" mean?

    Some cars come with rear ends that if an axle breaks the whole axle stub that is left and wheel can slide out and go rolling down the track. Saftey hubs are like a plate that holds the axle end to the axle housing to prevent the remains of a broken axle from coming out.

    What does "flywheel shield" mean? Scatter shields? Does it have to be AHRA/NHRA approved?

    Yes they have a bunch of different names but they are all like a can that goes around that area to prevent high speed blown parts from flying out of that area and injuring the driver or spectators. Some now also need a plate that goes on the back of the block and attaches to the can so all the exploding clutch and flywheel parts are contained in the can.

    Early on they were offered but there were no specifications at NHRA/AHRA about them so some were good and some not so good. Then I think it was the early 60's the sanctioning bodies developed specs and the manufacturers started making them to those specs and marking them NHRA approved.
    But remember if buying a used one that ALL the attaching hardware should be at spec too.

    If you are not bringing it to the states and running at NHRA sanctioned tracks no they do not need to be approved but how much do you value your feet? You need to look into your local tracks and see who sactions the events and what their rules are.

    Good luck I will be following this neat little project and I'm honored that you include me in your list of "Gasser era experts":)
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    AHotRod, tb33anda3rd and volvobrynk like this.
  3. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Hey loudbang

    I included you for your drag racing skills, you great insider knowledge of rule books (and the reading there off) and that you are a damn fine researcher. And I'm very happy you took the time to reply, like I'm with most replies.


    Is this safety hubs or do I need to do any further.
    [​IMG]

    I value my feet, so I might go the extra miles for safety.
    Is it legal to build my own? And is there some specs.
    There is no Danish Sanctioning body for drag racing, but FIA (international Motorsport) rely heavily on NHRA and SFI.
    And running 10 sec or slower, requires almost no additional safety gear.
    They almost have to be street legal, no excessive oil/fluid leaks, most have measurements to prevent cooling leaks (catch can and puke tank. Must have (street) legal belts and and seat must be firmly bolted down etc.
     
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  4. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Is it legal to build my own scattershield?
    As long as I stick to specific specs.

    http://ebay.com/itm/111899949882?_mwBanner=1

    When looking at this I think it looks just like a full bellhousing, and where is the safety in that?

    I most confess, I have no 5 speed rover box, but I do have two gearboxes in my parts stash I contemplate using.

    And since I'm unsure about the gears in my rear end, I don't know how to figure out what gear set is best for my small engine.

    I got a Volvo M50 4speed Getrag box out of a 1976 264 V6

    M50 3.86 2.22 1.40 1.00

    Or this Volvo M400 4 speed ZF gearbox out of a 1974 164 straight six

    M400 3:14 1.97 1.34 1.00

    Since I've got both of them, and the M50 being Alu housing, I lean to that, but since the M400 can be an bolt in/out with a M410, that has an 0.72 OD attached. I have mixed emotions here.

    The idea was I want to drive it on the street, be legal on the three tracks in Denmark, that would be nice with the option of looking for an OD for the Highway.
    Or is it just silly, I could always just take the scenic route and live with the slow top speed, and go all in on the alu box and racing
     
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  5. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 38,672

    loudbang
    Member


    Yes that triangle between the hub end and the bearing would hold the axle in if it broke so you are good there. The ones with a problem (Mostly GM products) do not have that and the axles are held in by C clips inside the differential so if the axle body breaks there is nothing on the outer end to hold it in.

    One USED to be able to build your own scattershield but with the advent of the specs by NHRA I don't think it is permitted here anymore. But if you can't find an approved one for your car building one yourself (If allowed there) would be better than none at all.
     
  6. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 38,672

    loudbang
    Member


    Can't see any shield in that ebay link just has electronic stuff. But yes the approved ones are a whole bellhousing type thing that encloses the clutch and flywheel to contain any part from either if they destruct and the original bellhousing is not used.

    Which transmission you should use and be a better option JUST for dragracing would depend on what rear end ratio gears you can get or have to use. IF you can use something in the 4:10 ratio then the slightly higher ratio of the M400 type wouldn't matter and you would have the Overdirve which is nice on the street.

    But if you are stuck with something in the 3:50 range then for Dragracing best results the M50 with the 3.89 would help off the line performance.
     
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  7. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    If I want to do the math the other way around, is there a way to calculate optimal total ratio, when I have tire size and engine power?

    I plan to run 25 inch cheater slicks, for the right look and feel, because they should closest to the stock
    size, and I want to run the speedo. It's an MOT need to pass, I can't deviate more then 5% from stock, that is 195/65-15 travel length (measurements of the outside of the tire all the way around, I don't know the English name for this) .
    For the car the stock steel wheels, is avalible in 4, 4.5 and 5.5 wide, in 15 inch. I got some homemade extra wide one, but since they are welded, I doubt they are NHRA legal.

    So I been thinking about running Steelis, 4 in the front and 5.5 in the rear.
    Is there a good cheater slicks avalible with the right pie crust, that fit my 15x5.5 and is 25 inch tall? I

    I also found a cheap SFI legal Scattershield, although being from a SBC, I think I can adapt it for my need. It's pretty close to the Rover in size, but it need some of the holes re-drilled. But that should be possible, and still be "legal" and safe.
     
  8. circumference.
     
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  9. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    This is the gear set used to set the last ET.

    Rover LT77

    1st = 3.321
    2nd = 2.087
    3rd = 1.396
    4th = 1.00
    5th = 0.792

    They are a little rare, but the fifth would be good.
    But, and that's a big butt, they are rare, expensive and most of them are in use still.
    And the other two I have in stock, and I have a clutch for Mock up. And A rover flywheel.
    So I doubt I will buy one, unless one comes up and I can sell one of the other two, or both.
     
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  10. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,641

    thirtytwo
    Member

    An engine swap every two years to get inspected doesn't sound all that bad :) earlier days of smog in the USA lot of guys played that game
     
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  11. brad2v
    Joined: Jun 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,648

    brad2v
    Member

    First off, I'm subscribed. 2nd, what rear gear was in the car when it ran? Thirdly, my nickel's opinion, I wouldn't try and back-date it. The car is historic locally, even if that history doesn't line up with the North American "golden age". It's got a certain "look" that I think is very cool.
     
  12. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    I know that the OB told me he got the rear end out of a 1986 Volvo 240, so most likely 3.31.

    I'm not gonna change much to make it a Gasser.
    It's just a matter of m, I don't want to to take it back to the show car I originally was build as, but more the Street/Strip class it was raced in, and then street driven to/from track.
    It was raced on almost the same terms as and US/NHRA Gasser class.

    I'm a "paint it black and put it back" kind of guy. And to me, if the engine room got dulled a little down, and the right parts bolted on, it would be a Gasser. I'm not talking a nose high stand and stuff like that. More like the TLB with paint.
    There is NO way I'm gonna polish all that Aluminum back up again!
    The only thing I dislike about the car is the frenced rear license plate, but I'm not man enough to change it.

    But I got a love for things like Mag slots/Ansen Sprint and the car deserves stuff like that and being put back to good use.

    It would've been C/GAS or CG if it was raced according to the 1966 rule book.
    So fare, might get lighter

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I'm just saying this could and would be really great to try this stuff out.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
  13. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    I talked to the OB a couple of times a year, and I share sopme of the ideas with him, and I sense he speaks with a certain feel (glow, passion) of the days where it was a Dual purpose car, and I wanted it to be a race ready street car, and I just go soft do a certain era and style. And I'm looking forward to digging more in to it.

    If anybody is interested, the side of the car was painted when he went all in on the racing, and removed the licenses plates to build it in to a full on Racecar, 84. I know this from the change in Phone numbers that one year, and because he told me that it was a good year for him too.

    The lettering says;
    Ditters auto wrecker gets there first...
    If you dial (turn) 09-131421

    The first two numbers was an area code for fünen, the area I live in now, and that could be left out if you was in the same area code. Like long distance. And you could dial 99 for operator, and 000 for "911".
    The phone looked like this
    [​IMG]
    And you could slam it in anger and be rewarded with a small ding, for you hard work. And to calm you a little back down again.

    I can't help but go around and humb
    "long distance information,
    Give me Memphis Tennessee"

    And for us Danes, that was the golden era of drag racing, with hard launched, smoking, smoking street tires, weight transfer to make a car launch and plain gun at the drags!
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  14. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Anybody got a pair of 215 pressed steal valve covers in excess?
     
  15. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 38,672

    loudbang
    Member

    Love the phone LOL. Good start using the shortest roll out slicks you can get away with less short rear gears then if you don't have OD trans switch to bigger tires to just drive around.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  16. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 11,549

    AHotRod
    Member

    One of the largest reduction in E.T. is unsprung weight..... in other words, the wheel and tire weight.
    Uses the very lightest wheel and tire combination will lower your E.T.

    Be sure and weigh all items from the car, before and after. The Goal is to reduce the overall weight as much as legally possible.
     
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  17. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 547

    jimbousman
    Member

    Yes, Buick valve covers will fit a Rover and vise versa. (see attached)
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. jimbousman
    Joined: Jul 24, 2008
    Posts: 547

    jimbousman
    Member

    I know Rover uses a cross flow double carb intake. After market manifolds are readily available here in the states. They are popular replacement for the Rover manifolds. Just check out Ebay. As far as multi carb setups there are concerned they too are still available from suppliers. The biggest you will find are two two barrel manifolds. I am running a stock '63 Buick manifold with a rebuilt Q4. I have been told that the Q4 is somewhere near 450-500 CFM.
     
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  19. The rule stated that cars must have a full working automotive type suspension that a manufacturer would use. It didn't have to be from the Same manufacturer. Most Axle cars were higher horsepower cars where traction was a problem and the axle setup was easier to make the car shift the weight to the rear for better traction.
    It changed over the years, but D/G would be the most common for that weight and cubic inch, after 1968 it would be E/G.

    NHRA Approved Scattershields were not mandated for all years. But where they were it was Not legal to build your own, you had to buy an NHRA approved or in later years (1978) SFI Certified one. You also could not use a stock Iron style flywheel. These days I believe Scattershields are only required for 11.99 and faster cars so you'll be fine.

    There is one other thing to think about - There is a good chance that your Volvo wouldn't have been legal at all - The bodies were required to be “a coupe or sedan body originally produced by an American automobile manufacturer”, with the following exception “There are at present a few foreign coupe and sedan bodied cars that, in general characteristics, better meet the requirements of Gas Coupes/Sedans class better than sports car class. Provided these car bodies and cars do meet all other class requirements – wheelbase, etc. – these cars are classed according to cubic-inch displacement to weight under this section." This was generally aimed at Anglia's Prefects and Austin's. I imagine if you had showed up with a 122S back then it would have been open for interpretation as to whether it was a legal gasser or not.
     
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  20. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    Thanks Don and Jim.

    I enjoyed your posts, and I've been laying low in the last month, I've been working on OT stuff for the last month or so and selling out of parts/ projects to pay for an OT car for my wife..

    But I plan to be back on the HAMB projects soon.
     
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