Technical Red paint- Is this what I should expect?

Paint- Is this what I should expect? This is after 4 wet coats(not reduced) on your typical white/black spray out card! Poor poor coverage. Its almost like a candy. You can see the film build up along the edges at bit but that's it.
Acrylic urethane, single stage. Vintage VW ruby red code L456.
I have sprayed this brand/type of paint in whites, yellows and greens with excellent coverage in two coats.

Did they mix this wrong or do I need to buy 40 gallons?

 

If it's mixed correctly you will need a tinted sealer.
Comparing one colors characteristics to another's even in the same paint line isn't valid.

 

You say it is not reduced!! What do you expect!!

 

Wow !
Something ain't right

 

it takes a lot of red to cover a dark color, especially black
I always use a light colored sealer under bright colors

but single stage should have covered a little better for 4 coats

 

Reducing would decrease the hiding power even more.

 

Use tinted primer or sealer. Most of the cheaper reds don't have as much pigment due to cost. The expensive reds cover well. You get what you pay for, if your lucky.

 

I'm just wondering what your temps are in Canada and if your are required to use low VOC paint there. Maybe you need to use a POLAR activator or a faster activator. ???

 

nah, its messed up, after the last coat dried there is no gloss, nothing. They must have used the wrong ingredients.

 

What brand of paint was it?

Shoot that red over some gold

 

x2 , what brand of paint and where did you buy it ?

 

Not necessarily - I have seen non reduced paint not flow properly and that will cause it too be very uneven and not consistent in coverage. Look's like it's very thick in places and thin in others were it did not flow to the edges Also could be the cause of it not glossing out when dry. Just from experience

 

I had my 1940 Coupe painted Porsche India Red back in 1988. The painter quoted the job, using PPG single stage urethane. In the middle of spraying he called and complained that the paint was translucent, did not cover well, and that he had to buy more material to cover the red oxide colored primer/ sealer. Luckily I had a lot saved up for the paint work, so I just had him buy whatever material he needed to complete the job. Apparently some colors don't cover as well as others. To make matters worse, red is one of the most expensive pigments!


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Cheapr product seems to be more translucent.. My experiance anyway

 

Just buy an extra gallon and spray it


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a transparent red like that needs the proper Valueshade for it,it will be a very light grey,i would never keep applying more paint and hoping it covers.get the right color for a ground coat,will only take 1 coat,let it flash and then spray the red over the top,it really does work well.Make sure you talk to the paint rep for the paint you have,or you will never get it right,all youll have is a car with 7 coats of paint that wont harden up right and you will see a few bald spots too. an ounce of prevention will go a long way. Harvey

 

Okay, so i was at the paint store today, they said cause its cheap paint, mostly mixing clear and low pigment. Cheap crap at $300 a gallon. If i go to another store they say $400 gallon but will cover a little better. 'Good' quality is $500 gal. They say reds suck for coverage.
How come the $50 can of red tractor paint covers in 1 coat?

 

This is the truth.
And to be sure hiding is achieved use the checked hiding labels available, but rarely promoted or even known about, from the paint suppliers. They are a great aid and take the guess work out of spraying the poor hiders.
I say again it is folly to compare any color's hiding ability to another color even within the same product line.

 

went to a paint update class last week and we shot some fleet polyurethane
costs about $75 to shoot a gallon of red
covered in 2 coats looked very good
for how long?, who knows
try shooting that red over a light gray and a bronze undercoat and see which one hides better
most car manufacturers use a gold/bronzeish undercoat under red

 

You can buy a much better 1 gallon paint kit (various brands) ONLINE for less than $300.....stop going to that paint store. Try TCP Global, House of Kolor, Summit Racing, SPI, etc

 

He's in Canada online doesn't work out so great. We pay 30% exchange and the probably at least 30% in shipping and associated charges.

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I had to replace the front fender on my Harley (don't ask) and got a new one in bare metal. After sanding the bare metal with 220, I sprayed the metal with a metal etch primer from Rustolem in a rattle can and waited a few days before spraying the top coat. I used a base coat, clear coat using a clear coat I had left over from another paint job. The color I got was matched to the Harley paint and I got the cheapest brand paint that they had. Roughed up the primer with 320 sandpaper and applied a very light coat of color and waited twenty minutes before a second medium coat of color. Two more heavy coats maintaining the 20 minutes between coats. The color is a dark maroon but with all the florescent lights in the shop and flash from the phone, it's looks lighter. I haven't rubbed the fender out yet but there is no problem with bleed through or blotching of the color even with this cheap red paint. Besides having the proper air pressure, fan pattern, gun speed and paint mixture, I think the most important part is waiting 20 minutes between coats. You have to remember that once the paint hits the painting surface, the chemicals start to evaporate from the paint and if you put a second coat on top of the previous layer too soon, The chemicals cannot escape and will dry at a different rate of speed. I actually write down the time I finish a coat and wait before starting the next coat. It's real hard to wait the twenty minutes when you finish a coat and have to sit there and wait but it is necessary for a good job.

 

Big NO on tcp global, atleast on single stage poly... Stuff sucks

 

I bought some green acrylic enamel from TCP a few years ago and it was great, but I've never done any reds before.
I'm gonna try some of this 'candy' over gold and flake just for fun.....

Do basecoats usually cover better than single stage paints?

 

I agree, their CA compliant stuff sucks all together, I order the good stuff (higher VOC) and have it shipped to another state.

 

A Few days ago I shot the test panel,
Yesterday I sprayed the tub.
I used Ppg del fleet essential , I also started a thread on it a few days ago.





I can not express to you how much I like this stuff. Read the other thread too.
I had full coverage with 3 coats. Different shades of the colors cost different amounts ( I was major surprised there) this color (69 GM hugger orange) costs me $205 a sprayable gallon. 3/4 fill gallon and 2 pints of the additives. The clear costs about $115 for a sprayable gallon. A different shade orange just a touch off was almost double $$ because of toners, so your mileage will vary there.
Additional There's an intragal clear if you want to do a clear reduction or you can shoot straight clear over top. The test panel is no clear and the tub has a clear reduction. I used 80 ounces of color paint on the tub, 3 coats and then 2 additional coats with progressive clear reduction.

Looking back and on the next one I'd shoot 2 coats color and then start the clear reduction

 

bet you love it over gold. Do it !!!

As far as base coats go vs single stage-
What you to know for the comparison is how full the mixing base is before they start adding toners. The coverage is proportionately related to the total ounce's ratio of mixing base to toners. Or parts per 1000 pretty common on paint formulas.
Let's say in the color code there's 5 toners for a total of 10 ounces. You could add those 10 ounces into a partial fill 22 ounce quart can of mixing base and get a high coverage color. You could add those same 10 ounces to a partial fill 158 ounce gallon can of mixing base and get the exact same color but the coverage would be 4 times less. You could add those same 10 ounces to a 5 gallon bucket and get the exact same color but the coverage would be 20 times less.

There is some weird warp of space time and money that happens in a mixing room. It's a money making mother fncker !!! Last time I bought it --- DBC500 was $50 a quart and most toners were about 120 a pint. In the mixing room the add a few drops of this toner and few drops of that toner into a pint of DBC 500 and it hits the counter at $187 a pint or 1500 a gallon. Theoretically you could buy the 2 toners for 240 and $200 worth of the DBC and make the gallon for $440. You would have enough toner left to tint another 10 gallons

 

31Vicky
"There is some weird warp of space time and money that happens in a mixing room. It's a money making mother fncker !!!"
27 years ago, I was a partner/owner of bodyshop -n- paint supply store,
i saw the light of putting mixing bankes into each larger paint-n- body shops, so they could
mix their own. What ever brand they desired.
I got out of my end (partner/owner) after about 2 years, the partners kept hiring lowball employees that did nothing but steel , sample mix up a gallon of paint deliver it ,end up bringing it BACK as not
MATCHING and then pretend to get rid of it on the cheap for 25.00/40bucks(full gallons).
They didn't last much longer after i left, i think the thieves got the best of them, one store manager was painting practically each and every week end in the BACK of the store...lol
so you are CORRECT in your thinking .

 

It depends on the quality of paint and undercoat. If it's a value line product already poor hiding reds are much worse than a premium Single stage. Many paint companies have opinions on sealers. Some don't recommend them at all, some want tinted sealers closest to the color of the paint (old school thinking) The best option is a sealer based on grey scales. PPG's is called G-Shade or Spectral Greys, when DuPont was DuPont years ago theirs was Value Shade. That's the best ticket. I know it's hard to think, but a uniform medium to dark grey sealer under a red gives you perceived hiding. It keeps you from putting 6 coats of color on everything. It's the new way that late model cars are painted from the factory, and PPG duplicates that with their waterborne system. But make no mistake, that same thinking can be applied to any color or system. Here is a link to YouTube video discussing "perceived hiding" on a spot repair, and it shows how the sealer shade under red covers...


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I painted ,This TEST of ICI back in 1992.
The test panel primed in light gray undercoat, then the factory
formula for GM Black the ENTIRE (test door), then
with ( 1 ) one pass (Sata HVLP) after (10min wait for tape off With 1/4 tape added for $#!T$-n-giggles ) Viper red ( 1 ) pass and one pass only then QUICKLY grabbed the ford probe wellow for ( 1 ) one pass only .
Red was left to right , Yellow was right to left, for the FADE LQQK.
Amazing it covered (come on ONE PASS Over Black) that's purity GQQD, i'd say for that brand of paint.