The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by racer-x, Sep 19, 2015.
I am looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labor this coming year
Hi Brian.Wishing you and the crew the best for the coming year.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Usually by mid summer I have a idea what is going to change for the following year. I have mentioned I'm going with a 16 plug set up next year. The heads are twin plug capable after I drill and tap the second plug hole. The holes for the tubes and o-rings are already in them. I scored a set of nos magnesium stage five covers at bowling green this summer. I already had a set of red wires so all I needed to do today was put it all together. The old covers came off so I could remove the breather castings. I drilled the cover stud holes .025 over so they go on and off easy. I then made a fixture out of some scrap so I could hammer a flat on one side of the tube. The flats from one pair match up. I didn't want the tubes looking all beat up so the fixture came in handy. It turned out nice and clean. The red wires will be for the efi. The black for the mag. The msds will also be matching black and red. I think it's looking kind of top fuelish. I just need a 4 inch offset mag drive.
I removed the dual drive and mounted the pump directly to the pump extension. The quick connect was removed at this time because I dont need it now. The pump can be disconnected by loosening the pinch bolts. The pump moves forward to disengage it for street driving. The lines and cable still fit saving me some time and money.
I'm doing all this work so I can start it on gas then turn on the mag set at 50 degrees of lead. It won't start on 12 volts with that much advance so we are going to try this way. The difference in horse power going from 38 degrees to 50 is several hundred. So it's worth the effort.
Looks very cool. The valve covers give a tough look. Quick Question Brian, what are the front tires you are running?
So I think I understand the EFI side, but what spark plugs and spark sources are in play running nitro? Will you have two 8-plug mags? If so how do you change over one set of plugs from EFI to mag? Or do you really only need one plug on mag?
Instead of efi, might Brian mean hei? Hei for the street ignition and magneto for race ignition. Yes? No???
Lets hope he is running one set of plugs on fuel, if he runs both, he is going to need bigger tires.
Let's see how close I can get. He meant EFI, not HEI, as the distributor mounted in the "stock" location works with the EFI via MSD box IIRC for street driving. As for the dual plugs, one set will be for gas and the other for fuel. Last I knew, he runs the car on fuel with the EFI completely turned off, so only one set will fire while running fuel.
If I were a betting man, I'd anticipate seeing a dual mag setup (think modern top fuel) where one is the mag and the other is a gutted mag housing setup to function as the distributor while driving on the street.
champ scotty 58 has it figured out. the efi is controlled by a fast xfi-2 computer. both the spark and fuel are controlled by it. the nitro side is fired by a msd 20 amp mag. it will fire one plug. mikey the tires are mh i will have to look at them if you need a exact size. i think they are 26 inch.
It’s crazy how what to the average layperson would be basically the same engine format as a couple seasons ago. Is now in so many details besides the second gen long block update become such a stronger race looking package.
Well at least it looks faster to me. Reminds me of the way a blown nitro engine always looks somehow bigger and scarier in a drag boat up close and personal.
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Amazing, it's got the front tires off the ground and not even trying
I located a off set drive late last night from a guy i know that sells fuel car parts. I should have it by the weekend. i can make new plug wires for it. the old wires can be taken apart and shortened that will give me some thing to do. i have the special msd pliers to do the job correctly.
Are the plugs different for the nitro than gas?
Yes the nitro plugs are very different. I will get a pic of one for you.
The offset mag drive showed up today. This magnesium beauty is just what I needed. It not only drives two mags it moves them forward on the engine. This is necessary do to the diameter and height of the generators. It allows the passenger side valve cover the room it needs to be removed. The small bracket bolts to the area were the water pump would go in a stock application to provide support. The support is needed with all the weight hanging out front. The drive is belt driven. There is a belt tensioner adjusted from the side. The oil pump intermediate shaft doesn't separate from the drive. It's all one piece. I will use quick clamps to hold the mag and efi distributor in place. This is a cool piece that's not usually seen in a street car application so I thought I would take some time to explain it.
I just happen to know a guy selling a pair of polished stage five hemi valve covers along with a enderle dual drive. The msd pro billet distributor is for sale along with a set of wires.
So can you adjust the timing of the two distributors separately?
Yes. The base stays locked in place. Each distributor has it's own clamp. They can be turned individually. The mag will be set at 50 degrees. The efi distributor is set at 36 degrees.
49 caddy man we use ngk side gap plugs set at .018 gap.
A few trial fit pics. The rt. corner of the intake had to have some material removed to make it fit. The idler pulley bracket needs a little taken off it to. I wanted to check the fit before I removed the heads.
Do both street & nitro plugs stay in the head when doing both kinds of driving?
Yes. The street plugs won't foul out during the short time it's on nitro. During the street driving I dont care if the nitro plugs go bad because I put a new set in before each pass.
I really dont think they will carbon up as long as the tune up is correct.
Thanks for sharing the information with all of us! This is great stuff, I knew very little about nitro before this thread, now I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of it. Thanks again for including us!
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Good thing I did a trial fit before I took the engine out. Nothing fit. I had to cut a boss off the head. The boss was tapped and used to mount the alternator in a stock application. The idler pulley bracket was hacked on. I will need to make a new one that's shorter. The support bracket was too tall. It ended up in the mill to remove .125 off the top. The bracket also required some work to clear the water fittings. It's all good now. I borrowed a mag from a friend so I can make the wires. I have been burned in the past thinking things will all fit and then they dont.
That's looking pretty good. I just got back from St.Louis so its time to get going on stuff again. Glad to see ya got another pass in this year. Is to motor coming out to O-ring the water ports.
Before it comes out alot of work needs to be completed first. Of course nothing comes easy. The idler pulley hits the dual drive before all the slack is out of the belt. Getting a new belt is a call away but getting the right belt can get complicated. The centerline from the crank to the blower needs be measured. Then a wire needs to be wrapped around the existing pulleys for another measurement. Using a belt chart along with the pulley tooth count the correct belt can be selected. In my case I needed to change the lower pulley from a 61 to a 55. The top pulley went from a 48 to a 44. This keeps the ratio close to 25 percent over and allows one of the available belts to fit. I wanted to get this sorted out while I had a chance. The other big project was moving the shifter back 2 inches for a more comfortable position. Spacers were made then attached with the Lenco on the bench. The linkage needed to be modified for proper shifting. The trans went back in the car. The floor needed some slight trimming. The boot wouldn't cover the now larger hole in the floor. I had some extra sheet metal that was already powder coated that matches the floor so a piece was pop riveted in place. Making the hole smaller is also a safety thing. Less fire can come up through the floor. Another benefit is I can reach the fire bottle cables better with a gloved hand. Once you experience a good fire you think about these things. With the shifter back the passenger seat had to go back. I moved it 3 inches. The floor brackets had to have some material added so they could bolt back in place. My drag week passenger is over 6 feet tall so I'm sure he will approve of the extra leg room. There are a few other things planned. Stay tuned in.
The rest of my time has been spent prepping the trailer for winter and getting the shop ready for winter car storage. I will see you all at pri.
To just say it looks fast is quite the understatement! Definitely looks top fuel fast!
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Love that mag twin drive!!! The motor keeps looking tougher and tougher. Already looking forward to see what the car can do next year
thanks. I like your avatar. we plan on doing our own fire burn out photo shoot the third weekend in may at George rays hot rod wildcat dragstrip. located in Paragould Arkansas. I started a thread on it. we have pre approval from the track manager to do what we need to do to get the shot. we did some there some years ago with the 65 dodge. can you provide details on how you did you burn outs. was it plain gas or did you mix some things together? we mix gas and vht 50-50.
Thanks, it was a pretty awesome thing to do! Crisped the paint up a little but it was getting resprayed after anyway.
It was done with just gas, about a gallon I think, the photo ended up on the album cover for Godsmack's '1000hp'.
Got a video of it here
There are a few things that we do to save the paint. We remove the parachutes as we wont need them. The rear of the car from the door jam back is covered with vasoline. The vasoline absorbs the heat. As it absorbs the heat it melts running off the car taking the heat with it. The other benefit to vasoline it allows the color of the car to show through with all the flames.
Our technique was to pour a large amount of mixed vht and gas behind the car in a arch. We then ran two lines of the mixture about six feet long up to the tires. We also put some about a foot in front of the tires. From the arch that had the most fuel there was a wick that ran over to the guy that was responsible for lighting it. It has to be long enough to ensure his safety and be out of the picture. Another crew member was in front of the car on the drivers side. He gave the go ahead to light it off and motion to me when the fire was big enough to hit the gas. I had two guys out of frame one on each side in front of the car about 30 feet away. They had fire extinguishers ready in case the car was on fire. I would do the burnout and drive up to them.
Having the arch of fuel behind the car and not under it was much safer. It produced the effect of a wall of fire the car was driving through. We plan on doing the same thing this time around. Famous photographer John Asher gave me the vasoline trick. Bruce USA Larson invented the fire burnout and passed his secrets on to me. They both arguable have the most experience doing these successfully. I thank them both for passing the info on to me.
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