All this Ted Kasczinsky pining for the old days stuff is a waste of air. I can relate because I'm a long-time into just getting the heads OFF my Mitsubishi SUV, but it's still a waste. To each his own. If everyone drove old cars yours wouldn't be so cool.
This is a service based economy. They make more money charging for parts and labor than selling the car. I wish Detroit would make a simple car again too. Something that is aftermarket friendly, easy to modify yourself, or they could offer the "dealership add-ons". My dad still tells me about how excited he was in 1966 about the new Fairlane body style. What the hell am I gonna tell my son about?? How cool the 1998 Taurus was??? And on top of that, all of the plastic window control buttons in my 1999 Ranger fell down in the door, which makes me wonder if the engineers at ford are letting form follow function or the other way around. Of course all of this was typed by a 26 year old that can't remember a good looking "new" car, and also believes that automatic transmissions, cruise control, and microwaves have ruined our society.
today is one of the happiest days of my life. they just took out my last payment for my 2003 chevy s10 blazer "xtreme" i will NEVER buy another "new" car. ever.
Ting, Its both of the above. And, you forgot the other influences on the type of new cars that are offered to us. The green weenies, the environmentalists and the "safety" regulators. The environmental regs for "clean air" and the "safety" requirements are changing the cars so that you, the "common" man aren't allowed to work on them. They can't have you making "unauthorized" changes to them because you don't know what you are doing. You'll make it "unsafe" or make it so it "pollutes". YOU are a dummy. THEY are all knowing and smarter than you. You and I and everyone else on here knows that's all a lot of Bravo Sierra. You, sir, in their minds are preaching rebellion. Preach it. And don't forget all the other do-it-yourself rebels out there who are distilling their own ethanol and home-brewing their own bio-diesel to be ahead of the fuel shortage.
I can't speak with reams of data to support my claim, but I'd be willing to bet a substantial sum of money that if you compared the emissions from your carb'd 289 with the emissions from a brand new V8 EFI mustang, you'd be stunned. And, though the 2mpg difference doesn't seem like much, >10% improvement in fuel economy over the life of a car is substantial (I'd love to get 10% better in my 10mpg C10!) As far as the rest of you 'rants', I agree that this simple stuff (t-stat), brakes, plug wires, even oil changes - should not be a 5 hour service visit to Mr Goodwrench. That's just wrong.
cars (be it a model T or a bug) in general a designed to function for the lowest common denominator. Your gay uncle Arnie, who doesn't know which end of a screwdiver to use, can be taught to drive a model T. Modern cars are the same way, if the designers had thier way, cars wouldn't even have steering wheels. You would get in and it would take you where you wanted to go. We are the few, the proud, the ones with grease under our finger nails and bloody knuckles!
In the grand scheme of society, we gearheads are an small and unusual bunch, we enjoy working on cars (most of the time, anyway). The vast majority of car owners do not want to work on their cars themselves. Most of the people who do work on their own cars do so out of neccessity, rather than having a desire to work on them. This was true even in the "good old days" when cars were simpler. Next time you're at the auto parts store, look around at the customers. I bet most of them appear to be plain old working stiffs trying to save a afew bucks (maybe can't afford to pay a shop) and keep their basic transportation on the road, rather than appearing to be gearheads. New vehicles are more complicated as a result of the safety and emmisions standards that the majority of the public wants and that our government has mandated. I don't like it, but there ain't no goin' back. I do agree that some of the safety advances (anti-lock brakes in particular) have resulted in the "dumbing down" of many drivers. I believe that, most people who drive older cars have a better driving skill set than most folks who drive a standard, late model jelly bean. Most old cars do not handle or stop as well as the average new fangled late model, so developing a better skill set is neccessary for driving them. I don't like the style of the new cars and I don't like how complicated they are to work on, so I choose to drive old cars. I also accept and embrace the fact that most of the motoring public veiws me as a weirdo because of my choice.
Don't blame our woes on "society". It's not just that. Big businesses TRAINED us to be "consumers" starting in the 60s. In the 50s you got things fixed and refilled bottles. There is a certain economy in manufacturing something so low cost (due to volume) that it's cheaper to replace it than get it fixed -- mainly for the manufacturer, but it does make sense. A manufacturer buys 1,000 computer chips that are mechanically soldered in. You need one to fix a radio, but the radio has to come apart, the old chip removed then replaced by a skilled technician. The chip cost the manufacture 75 cents because he bought 1,000 at a time, it costs you $2 to buy one, then $25 for the technician to replace it in your $30 radio. $27 to repair, and $30 to replace. For a lot of things it makes more sense to replace -- some cars included, or at least components. But there are so many things that COULD be repaired that we just don't. At least a lot of communities are starting mandatory recycling. In Japan it's so mandatory that you get fined for not sorting your garbage! I understand the desire for easier to work on cars, but I have to tell ya, I really like the instant start of my EFI engine rather than the set the choke, try it, pump the gas, try again, pump again, hope I didn't flood it now, finally started on a cold day carbureted model. It wasn't that way most of the time, just extra cold days, but when you need/want to go somewhere it sucked. Now I get in, turn the key, and it starts. Of course my EFI is pre OBD, so it's a little simpler than the newest cars. There are easier to use/setup EFI systems out there -- they don't have to be as complicated as they are. And I definitely agree that most service people are trained monkeys, not real technicians. I'm retiring from the USAF in another year, going back home to build the addition on my grandmothers old house (well, mine now) myself. That's if I can get through all the red tape with the county for permission to do so!
that's what I used to think, till we got a couple late models. Man, those things are nice! you have to fart with one or two little things the engine maybe once every 5 years, they run forever. When you drive the old stuff all the time you have to freakin overhaul the motor that often! I've btdt driving only old cars....it's fun but it gets old after a while. And it sure hurts a lot worse (mentally as well as physically) when you ram your neat old ride into another car...when the late model gets hurt, it don't matter.
can't help but notice there is no mention of insurance in either of these threads.. what provider do you use and what kind of coverage do they offer? one of the reasons I stopped using an older vehicle for daily use was because I couldn't get the unlimited mileage cheap coverage specialty type insurance on my hot rod with my primary driver being more than twenty years old. also, my daily commute is about three hours round trip, how long will say, a '61 Lark last doing that every day? it wouldn't be long before it needed attention, I would have to push my hot rod projects to the back of the shop so I could work on the daily... what fun is that? my late model gets me to work so I can make money so I can afford to PLAY with cars if I spend all my free time working on basic transportation that's not play that's just more work.
Preach on bother !!!! Once off the grid...you are self sufficent, a wonderful thing that most people do not understand. Writh the check for the car payment......write the check for the repair.....drain the bank account without any thought as to what it does. Anyone remember appliance repair shops??? i do. Dead, killed by wal mart & the disposable economy. I have old stuff & will until i die. I can work on it if need be, can fix by the side of the road, without the aid of a computer Hopefully the next (last) house will be off the grid as well. Tired of paying TXU huge rates, seeing every rate increase approved, then hearing how they are "underpriced" in the market, the same day they post a 16 million dollar profit. Rant off, soapbox put up...off to buy another old vehicle
I drive my '54 Chevy truck to work nearly everyday. Yesterday, I decided to drive the '90 Prizm (Toyota) because the truck needs a tune-up and it likes gas a little too much right now. Besides, it had a flat tire. I just had the shop replace the timing belt my wife broke, cuz I tried to change stuff on it a couple of times. Niether was a pretty site and I still ended up taking it to the local shop. I noticed the teenager(s) had ran it out of gas, so I stopped to fill it up. After paying, I proceeded to start off for work. I get in the car and try to start it. Nothing. Not a damn thing. Lights and the obnoxious buzzer, but no starter engaging. I call my wife to get me. I ended up filling the tire on the 54 up and towing the Prizm to the shop once again. That's why I drive my '54 daily. Don't talk to me about the lack of handing or braking or any other excuse for driving a 'new' car. I have added front and rear sway bars along with four-wheel disc brakes and lowered it several inches. It handles fine and stops better than any car I've ever owned. Once I get the new engine in it, I expect to see my gas milage improve too. I can work on any part of this truck myself and do. Another benefit is that there is no one able to track my movements or speed with some factory installed GPS device. I like it that way. r
Here here!! It seems they put so many gadgets and gizmos in your car they make it easy for you to do anything except drive. Who the hell needs a dvd player in their dashboard? And the big plastic cover over the engine, so you can't see it even if you want to. Back in the day, even if you weren't a car person, your dad showed you how to check and change the oil in the driveway. It was just something you should know how to do. Today, new cars need a fucking tire pressure monitor because they are to lazy or stupid to buy a $3 tire pressure gauge and use it.
This is too funny. Back in the mid sixties I remember my own dad saying the same things about then new cars. My mom had a brand new 65 Falcon with a 289 and a C4. "Too complicated, too many gadgets, too hard to work on, why, oh why couldn't they make simple cars like the Model T any more? Who needed self adjusters on drum brakes or advance mechanisms in the distributor? And those fancy Holley carbs....an updraftTillotson was good enough. I'm never buying another new car....." yeah, right...
I'm not positive about Japan, but many countries over there are doing something similar, but what they do is issue an x amount of their trash bags to each household, anymore than the ones issued cost a grip. As a result, you recycle to avoid the need of purchasing more trash bags. So, not madatory if you're rich and don't give a fuck. I know it gets a hell lot colder in DE probably, but its been getting down to the high 20s and low 30s here in Texas the past week. My '54 starts first time, everytime. I love 2GCs!
I totally disagree with that statment. I've bought quite a few old motors with millions of miles on them and never cracked them open. They're still running. Them new shitboxes with sensors and computers are made where they run on the threshold of blowing up in order to be most efficient and eco-friendly and wears the fuck out of the motor... at least in every case that I've had. Oh yea, I drive at least 80 miles everyday in my '54, that's running a motor that was locked up and had 2 qts of water in the oil pan. Doesn't use a drop of oil.
My wife has a 03 Hyundai. The check engine light has been on for two years. Nobody including the dealer can clear it. I open the hood, look in, can't find anything I know about, close the hood and thats that. My old Chevy has a dizzy and carb. I can tweek and twist all I want. Fuck that new shit. My rod is a 34 Ford pickup with a souped up flathead. No check engine light! Great Rant!!!
So you drive roughly 900-1000 a week to work? I drive about 700 a week including the weekends. I swear, a properly driven and maintain old car will practically run forever.
Geez, you guys must have to change the oil every other week.....and lube the chassis, and gap the points, and pull the plugs....That's a shitload of mileage (and required maintenance) on an old car.
I've always trusted my old cars to get me there, or should I say, I trusted myself getting my old cars there and back but they all required more attention than the newer one I have now. that frees me up to work on my projects I guess I enjoy building cars more than maintaining them.. and your second statement, if I may be so bold... it seams the crux of the biscuit is that you don't trust the Ranger don't blame ya, keep the Chevy to use as backup and sell the Ford
60's Style -- it depends on how well YOU built that Studebaker Lark to begin with! Tear it down, build it back with those commutes in mind, and I'm willing to bet it will last 3-4 years before needing minor maintenance provided you started with and prepped a solid body to begin with -- or made it solid. I've been driving a 63 Rambler built that way for the last 21-22 years. I haven't had the long commutes you do, but I drove the first one I really built up (not counting the three beaters I had over my first 2-3 years of Rambler ownership!) I drove for 14 years. It was in pretty good shape when I got it, had to have the auto trans rebuilt. Over the years I rebuilt everything as it needed maintenance, and tried to do it right and just before it was absolutely necessary. Like when I started feeling a little wear in the front end, I started saving up and looking for parts, then rebuilt it BEFORE a joint fell apart. It went through two cheap paint jobs and one engine overhaul, and a second trans overhaul during 14 years of driving. I put an average of 7K a year on it for all but two years (had to do a stint in in Japan for the USAF!). Then I bought another, slightly larger Rambler. Drove it for about three months while the other was up for sale, then decided to sink some cash into by building my next new car. Took the same road on that one -- except I swapped in a 4.0L EFI AMC/Jeep six right away. I had some problems related to the fact that I got the engine from a bad wreck, but tried to use the block anyway (long story, hard to not try to use a 60K mile engine!), so I ended up buying a rebuilder short block and building the 4.6L stroker. That was easy since a friend gave me a rebuilder 258 to salvage the crank and rods from. Over a four year period I buiilt it up a bit at a time until I had it just about like I wanted it -- needed to fix a leak in the das tank and change the rear gearing. But a Nissan Exterra driver decided they were jealous and slammed into the side, totalling it out. An insurance check later I built my current 63 Rambler wagon a little better over a one year period. Due to a trip to Korea from March 2004 to March 2005, then moving in June 2005, I've still got a few loose ends to tie up, but I've been driving it the whole time. Admittedly, my wife's car is a 97, but paid for. I hope the next one we get is padi for but 3-5 years old, but my wife is thinking she wants something new. I reminded here that there would not only be payments, but 3x the insurance bill (I "self insure" for collision -- have everything BUT collision on the car) and 3x the tax bill (there's a property tax on cars in SC where I'm retiring to in a year). Instead of just a $400 a month or so payment, we'd really be spending another $600+ a month. I plan on building myself another car. Probably another Rambler, but will keep improving the wagon as time goes on. I have my motorcycle, so I can time the major improvements during good weather. Been doing that for the last 20 plus years now!
I keep an eye on the oil pressure gauge when its cold every morning. I change the oil when the pressure isn't as high as it usually is. I've always done this. There's no need (unless trash gets in the oil somehow) to change the oil if it has yet to loose its properties. I don't lube it too much, just evertime I'm under it already. Points? I put a pertronix in it. haha... I hope the plugs last forever! the bastard at the parts store gave me some that were $10 each! but I didn't notice it until I got home and was looking at all the junk I bought on the receipt.
that is the best reason I can see so far for it money, if the old car is paid for, and you do all the maintainance on it yourself, and no expensive insurance then it makes perfect sense you get to enjoy your old car and save money doing it.
I'm ready for the day the blue helmets come marching down our streets. The first place we should attack is to the north...... hahahah chill out!!! Don't have a lot of time.....short version i used to drive a used 87 camaro....basically a good car... grandpa told me for year that "these new cars are not designed to help you" (not people like most of us here) i had to replace the fuel pump on my camaro and that sealed the deal!!!! i didn't know much at the time, no tools, no garage, newly married, etc......i needed TRANSPORTATION that I (me and average joe) could fix and keep on the road with out breaking the bank and being DEPENDANT on SOMEONE ELSE So, i bought a 79 chebby, 1/2, 250 six with 3 on the tree......didn't run perfect, didn't make great gas mileage.....BUT I (let me emphasize "I") could fix it and do so cheaply.........but you know what, aside from normal stuff, it never needed fixing....rods knocked and everything....i now own 3 more of them.......they look like crap, etc, etc, but I am the master over it and it has made me independant.....i owe NO ONE for a car and by driving them, I have been able to buy many other things I couldn't have....... I AM BEATING THE SYSTEM!!! now, this isn't for everyone; looks like crap, doesn't idle on a cold morning (my fault), etc. etc, but for me, it works and i'm in control........i like it that way..... yes, when i drive a different, more modern car, it does drive easier, has a CD player instead of an AM radio but i don't care.... the only way they can force me out of my fortress, it to continue to raise gas prices or to out law them all together.......until then.....i'll keep winning... my buddies give me a hard time all the time- yeah, the ones that can't afford to play ole hot rods, are swimming in so much debt they are about to sink.....they tell me i must believe that new cars are "satan spawned demon controlled computermobiles" well, that's about right from my perspective.... again, this works FOR ME.....not my wife, not most of the world....but #1.....and with something like this, that's all I'm worried about....not my image, not my comfort....blah, blah you get the point
seymour, I agree and disagree here. Bear in mind these thoughts are not directed at you. I'm speaking of my general impressions of societal attitudes. Yes the pursuit of Lord Greenback seems to have become a huge motivation for Americans. However there are many good people leading simple lives and trying to give as they would get. They do have a passion for their country, theor nighbors, and the common good. Unfortunately, this "Love thy neighbor." attitude is SQUASHED by the omniscient media blitz that revolves around celebrity worship and rampant consumerism. Unfortunately I see a lot of teenagers and young adults who were raised on Mommy and Daddy catering to their whims. 90% of what's wrong with this country can be traced directly back to BAD UPBRINGING... Too many people being 'friends' with their kids and not being PARENTS. I'm trying to raise my sons to understand that you have to work for what you get and what you get is often dictated by the work you put into it. In my house we are allergic to instant gratification. Ask my sons what my motto is and they'll tell you, "Papa don't take no mess." That goes for them and anyone that tries to hurt them. I CHOOSE to raise my kids right. Lots of folks don't or won't do that. Yeah it's hard but that's YOUR JOB as a parent. (Wow, look who's ranting now!!!) I agree that life is a little too complicated these days but when we start looking to blame someone for that we need to look at ourselves first. I think this is what Tingler trying to say. If you don't like the way your life is going, change it. It's really that easy. What's my motto?? Don't let life give you a mess. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade and find someone who's life just gave them vodka. As for me, I'll keep my vanilla econobox for a daily 'cause it helps me get in and out of the ghetto incognito when I work.
LOL you aint kiddin!! I cant wait to dump my 02 golf TDI ...any money you saved with the nice little diesel motor is long gone after acouple of repairs it has about 100 k on it and I have spent close to 4 g's on just routine shit on it ,I cant work on it ,you need special tools from VW ,weird electrical problems,the wiper moter even siezed when it was a little over a year old!The old pontiac had 98 k on it when we got it 4 yrs ago ,had been sittin for over 10 yrs in a barn....it took 2 weeks work and we have put 24k on it since then.I still dont have as much into it as I do repairs and maintenace on the vw and that includes the price to buy it as well! I told the dealership my 64 Pontiac and 55 Chevy still had there original wiper systems in them, they just dont get it! Since I lost my job and dont need a newer car anymore I will drive the 64 Pontiac or my 48 Chevy till we get out west when I will fix up a 50's 4-door as the family year rond beater ,NO MORE NEW SHIT!!! I cant wait.I even got the new plates for the 48 today even though there is still 3 ft of snow on the ground,if I had the heater in it I would be drivin it in a few weeks.Go Tingler Go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Koolkemp
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