The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TINGLER, Feb 21, 2006.
Volkswagen = The People's Car.
Get you one, you'll learn to hate it too.
Testify, Brutha Tingler!!!! Hallelujah!!!!
Well said and welcome to the world of out-dated transportation. Your On-star is folded improperly in the glove box and your cup holder is between your knees.
They're not exactly "low emissions" either...phew!
"Anti-lock brakes save lives"....what a crock....Most of the populus doesn't know what "threshhold braking" means. They just mash the f'in pedal as hard as they can and sue the manufacturer when it swaps ends.....
And I thought i was the only one that HATED new cars.
Well said TINGLER!!
Seriously, the only exeption I'd take with your argument is that it's a little backward. The new cars are not designed to MAKE people lazy, stupid pussies who can't change their own oil. The new cars are designed the way they are because people who buy them DEMAND no-maintenance, no noise, hermetically sealed cocoons with ass heaters and cup holders and concert quality sound because they ARE lazy, stupid pussies who can't change their own oil...
The car companies have not changed...they have always existed to line the pockets of the corporate honchos by giving the sheep that for which they bleat!!!
Congratulations on going off the grid...it can only make your life better!!
What could be more simple? give them $1500, sign your name on a few sheets of paper, you get 6 years to pay, all you gotta do is put gas and (maybe) oil in it.
3 weeks after the warranty runs out, you have the choice of putting $1500 into it or $1500 down on a new one.
A simple decision... New is better than old, and it smells good!
You sign another few sheets of paper and they add the balance that you owed on the last car to the new "lease" (cuz you can't afford the payments to buy the car anymore). Same thing happens in 3 years, 36K miles.
As long as you keep your credt score up, your life will be fine, and remember, a good customer is a good citizen and vice versa.
i guees i can see your point but i work at a ford dealer and i need a job too and i cant fix horses but i can fix a check engine light
hell if they drove the shit back then in all kinds of shitty weather why can't we now. as soon as my A gets done i am done with the 64 and up shit
winter might suck though need one hell of a heater for when it turns -30
I drive a 64 chev, and i'm looking for a model a, i can change my own oil, and i happen to be an apprentice at a Toyota dealership.
Sooo lets see, years ago people were building their own houses, doing their own plumbing and electricity, now you pay someone to build it for you. Because you don't have the time or skill or either to do both. Unless of course you built your own house... in your spare time.
Or those same people would work their land, plant the seed, nurse it to maturity and harvest their ingredients to make food, or... deliver the animal, feed it, doctor it and butcher it. You go to the store and buy everything once a week and cook it, or you just grab a burger at a fast food joint. Cause we don't all have the work ethic or patience or dedication to be farmers... in their spare time.
Everyone isn't good at everything. Are we lazy pussies for not wanting to kill and butcher our own food as we need it. I'm not saying your situation hasn't been frustrating and i know you understand older vehicles better, and by belonging to this forum you admit that...in your spare time...you like to work on cars, but that doesnt mean you can shit on everyone who wants a quiet, comfortable, weatherproof, turn the key and go type of vehicle. Because those people have shit to do in their spare time too, and they don't want to spend it working on their car. So if someone only wants to get their asses to soccer practice, or to work or their hair appointment or poker game they're happy to pay someone else to do the work for them.
Just like you're prepared to pay others to provide a service that you cannot/willnot/choosenot to do yourself... in your spare time.
I bet theres some Home Renovating forum somewhere and people are having the exact same conversation about those lazy asses who can't refinish a bathroom or something.
I hate about 99% of our current society and its motive (notice it's singular)... the mighty DOLLAR.
Fuck it all Ting! There's little or no passion in what our society is doing now.
You are mistaken, carla and I are building our own house (99% including electric and plumbing) of it from my hands as well as freinds and family. We intend to raise our own poultry because the shit in the stores is translucent shit. I built my rifle from scratch. I built my hotrod from scratch. I intend on setting up a forge and even building some bicycle frames from scratch.
Passion for handmade stuff is out there, you are lulled into modern society by complacency.
I've thought about this all a ton. My '01 Dakota is paid for. I'm about to give it to my wife, and swap into a '62 Suburban for a daily. As a back-up, I should really get my '54 Buick back on the road. I drove that for a year and a half while my '97 Dakota sat. (Dad works for Chrysler).
No car payments? Damn straight! Never again.
The point about cars being built for consumers demanding that is dead on though. People today don't do ANY of their own shit anymore. From cooking dinner to mowing their lawn. Remember when we were growing up? Mom and dad would get a baby sitter because going out to dinner was a big deal. They even dressed up and everything. Only the very rich had a lawn service. Instant oil change? If you had the oil and filter in your garage already, it was instant because you didn't have to drive to the parts store to get it.
Here's an interesting point to ponder: We're well into the first generation of little boys being raised by their single mothers, thanks to a 50%+ divorce rate. What do most (most, not all...) moms do to raise their little boys into men? Get them involved in sports. Baseball, football, soccer, basketball. Maybe cub scouts, too. But mainly sports. Hence, the rise of The Sports Bar and Fantasy Leagues. But most women don't know how to repair or replace a sticking toilet valve, so they call a plumber. Or an electrician to put in a new ceiling fan. Or she pays the appliance store extra to deliver and "install" the new clothes drier. Or a contractor to put a wash tub in the laundry room. The son doesn't have anyone to teach him these things, and grows up calling AAA to come and fix his flat tire in the driveway, takes the lawnmower in to Sears once a year to get a new spark plug and have the blade sharpened, and stops off at Jiffy Fucking Lube on the way home to have his oil changed.
I told my son there are only three real men in the neighborhood: Me, the guy down the street who grew up on a farm, and the guy next door to me who is a building contractor; If you want to know how to do something, ask one of us. Ignore all the other pussies in the neighborhood.
When the 9-year old fixed the neighbor lady's 10-speed bike chain, I felt pretty damn good.
But I seriously don't know if that will matter in his future. I can grow vegetables, clean fish, kill and gut a deer, start a fire with one match in the rain, and build a shelter that will keep me alive...but there isn't a lot of call for those kinds of skills these days. Society has moved away from those needs. I think it's also moved away from changing your own oil and doing your own brakes.
You oughta try working on them for a living! They are driving me nuts! Tools cost a fortune but you gotta have them. Scanners are outta sight [ 7500.00 for a new Modus ] that will last about 2 years before needing updates. Check engine lights that show emmision codes that you spend all day on. OBD II & CANS computers that controling nearly everything on a car. Are you aware that some cars can even be scanned by the dealer to tell them how the car has been driven? Your right its crazy! Try telling a customer that they will have to spend a thousand dollars on their car to get the check engine light out! I been wrenching since the late sixtys and have seen changes that would make a precher cuss. I`m getting to the same point Tingler! Serious about getting out of the whole thing! Be like Gogan and chuck it all and move to Tahiti where lifes simple!
Tingler, glad I didn't step on any toes with my comments, its against my nature and being the youngin and a FNG.
And TMAN cut me some slack...I think i made a fair generalization, how many people do you know who are building their own house ?
At a certain point i think everyone gets in over their head. Even though you can work on your older cars there are still certain items that get "farmed out". I'm pretty damn sure i won't rebuild another automatic transmission for my own vehicle...but i tried it once.
Unfortunately my experience in the dealership is that most of the techs are trained monkeys. More and more dealerships will only accept their "approved factory training"
They are kind of like the hot rod "assemblers" out there. Taking parts that are all engineered and made to fit together and slapping them on thinking they've "created" something. Give them one bracket thats slightly bent or a fuckin bushguard that doesn't sit level they run for the parts counter to order a new one.
BEND THE SHIT...ITS METAL. Drill bits and files are not acceptable repair tools.
Thats why I'm just using the dealership as a fast track to get my apprenticeship hours, become a licenced automotive technician then i'm leaving for one of the "plentiful" hot rod shops in ALBERTA or start my own...
Believe it or not, Ting, school trains society to be the way it is. One thing you're taught the first day, is to choose from the options given not what you please.
If you havent noticed, America has chosen to be a throw away society-- Americans want it quick and easy. People don't want to worry about caring for anything, they just want to use it and throw it away. Americans generally float through life falling into the cookie cutter corporate templates, and then they die. It's the new American way, and the masses support it.
- A car is expected to drive without problems... until you throw it away and get another one. Society wants you to scrap your "polluting," loud, "dangerous" old cars.
- What happens to 20+ year old buildings? Corporations tear them down or remodel them. Man, what happened to appreciating old structures that carried beauty through history?
- No more mom and pop shops... now everybody shops at the same places and buys the same things. Costco is a perfect example of this.
What's ironic, is that most of us want & claim to be different, at the same exact time as being just like everyone else. How many of us claim were different because we're into some different things (like our cars,) but then also have new cars we expect 200,000 miles w/o troubles, live in a cookie cutter tract home, and buy our muffins from Costco?? I have to admit that I fall into that trap all the time.
Convenience is evil. It makes life smoother, and thus death sooner.
I don`t know of any ''trained monkeys'' that can diagnose a faulty injector or a bad IAC motor! The reason that most dealerships reqiure factory training is to produce a better end product! You have to remember that their in business to make money, period! That means sell, sell, sell!
Seymour...thats an excellent point...thats probably why the PT cruzer sold like mad..it was an option that didnt look like all the other options
But...Ting ma pal....i'm with you...my daily is a 64 and the newest one in the bakers dozen is a 77...
technology sucks !....
If I gave up my nice new pickup truck, soley to be dependant on my hotrods, I would be walking everywhere...well not really, I have a bunch of motorcycles to ride...but I would certainly be getting wet right now.
Not my style, but yes, and they were affordable. So whats GM do? See that old styling really has a substantial market, so they make a PU that's 60K. They're just now making that new little SUV thing that looks like a PT Cruiser, about 10 years after the fact.
Car companies will only make what sells, based on what sold well the last decade or so. Because of that, every car is just like the other.
I know were drifting around the topic but...my freinds used to say...
"why dont you sell a couple of your cars and buy one brand new one?"
to which i would reply..
"as soon as they start making cars that dont look like everybody else's half used bar of soap...i'll think about it" i wont but i say i will
footnote:Ford and GM are so far behind Dodge now they may never catch up !
...and i'm a ford guy....LOL
I'm kinda with you Tingler, i've been doing things the wrong way for the past year or so, i've dumped a lot of money into a car I don't like, because I hate it so much I don't want to work on it myself. When all the time I needed to get over it, sell it, and move on to something else. Hard (and expensive) lesson learned.
I've drove a couple of different rental cars lately, I really like the new G6. Comfortable seats, nice radio, heater. It's a real appliance, just turn the key and go. It's kinda nice, i'll admit it. The lazy man in me wants one, but the car guy in me knows better, especially in a few years when things start breaking. The GTP I was renting had 1400 miles on it, and the starter stuck on it twice.
I spent a hell of a lot of time and money on a '79 malibu trying to get it to handle like my mom's '00 malibu. The '79 was a lot more fun to drive...
You make several compelling points,Tingler. The main reason I participate in the "Old School" Hot Rodding Culture is because it is not replete with politically correct bull-shit. Not all of it, but a large part of it is dealing with folks of like mind & interest, & and a tendency to a straight-forward approach to our concerns & interests. There will always be exceptions to that rule. I like the simpicity of what we're doing & the camaraderie that tends to go with it. I have a real aversion to Glitz & Bling! I don't care what your Hot Rod costs or what high profile person was commissioned to build it! that isn't real commomn around here, ( having a National Celebrity do the work, that is.) and I'm glad about that. I can't afford to spend a years earnings on my "hobby vehicle" & that's just fine with me. I sold the last "closed vehicle" I ever intend to own. It was a 62 SS Impala. I sold it to finance a Hot rod build because it was necessary. I don't regret it either. I'd do it all over again! My next ride will be driven daily barring the exception of heavy rain and/or snow. I drove my present 26 T today in 34 degree weather! Why? Because I wanted to test some new shocks I just mounted. I LOVE it! That's why I came here. That's also why I'd like to continue being here & meeting as many fellow HAMBERS as I possibly can, even if it means driving all over the country to do so. This is where it's at! JUST hot rodding! I'm in my element!Something I've loved all my life! ...Something I believe I'll always love & enjoy!...even when it doesn't go very well, & I have mechanical problems. It's all part of the game! Cruise well! Cruise often!
I'm with Tingler on this issue- my daily is a '50 Dodge. Before that a '51 Ford. Before that a '65 Caddy.
My wife used to work at a pizza joint with a lotta younger (broke) folks, they were all the time asking me about cheap transportation. What to look for, what to stay away from. My reccomendation is the same now as then- a circa '74 to '80 American mid size car- Chevy Nova, Ford Granada, Dodge Aspen, or some similar thing. Dirt cheap parts, any idiot with a manual can fix it, tires are cheap generic sizes, junkyards usually have parts, as do parts stores, most get moderate gas mileage, cheap insurance.
Not one of the people I gave this answer to ever followed my advice, but every single one came back to ask for help working on the piece of junk they bought after not taking my advice.
I have drawn the conclusion that the general populace percieves "old" as the same as "undependable" That for no other reason than it's "old" that a '76 Buick Apollo can not possibly be a dependable daily driver, but that a '96 Hyundai would be great, because it's fairly "new"
For $1000 down and $250 a month I can make an "old" car go way beyond anything built these days, and get style to boot!
Well, I'm on the fence on this one kids. Whenever I hear "...boy they don't build em like that anymore..." I usuall say "good thing they don't" because of strides in safety and such. But that doesn't mean where things are going is also OK by me. Unibody cars DO save lives. Airbags? Something I don't ever wanna test. Like a race car roll bar. Don't wanna test that either. But both decent ideas. Lawsuits? It's the judges that take these cases that are the problem, not the dip-fucks who decide to sue or the attny's that rep em.
Gotta go to work now. Maybe more later.
I Feel most of the population are not mechanically inclined.
I'll argue with anyone about the quality and reliablity of the new technology applied to the new cars.
I grew up during the times when you used to brag when a car achieved the 100,000 mile realm. Brag quickly because it usually was a year or two later when the thing was ready for the junkyard.
Need i say the cars nowadays usually hit that mark within a three year period and its nothing to see a honda, toyota with 250 g's or more.
Yes the materials are thinner laden with plastics.
But I really never thought I see the day when cars didn't start to rust after the first five years. The paints also hold their sheen and very few will fade or chip away. Hot rods are for fun, I don't consider spending every evening after i get off work patching back together the mechanicals on it so I can make it to work the next morning.
Yes very few can work on the new ones and most can't afford to pay to have others replace the components. The components alone are so elaborate that we can even afford to buy them to install ourselves.
Necessary evil. I travel 85 miles a day to go to work. I want something reliable. Buy a Toyota
I too miss the simpler times when i could walk to work and the grocery store and the Doctor came to the house when we were sick.
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