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Technical Rebel Wire Harness diagrams and wiring info

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by REBEL43, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Here’s a picture before and after finding my draw. The test light just goes inline in one of the cables, with the other cable still connected. Here’s the test light showing a draw. This was with all switches off, doors closed, nothing was turned on. If you turn something on, the bulb will get even brighter
    A6AA8DF7-7A21-4B09-8E69-3FCEF9B1B5A0.jpeg

    The light is just inline in the negative cable, between the post and the cable. The positive is still connected to the battery like normal.

    Here is the test light after I found the draw and pulled the fuse for that circuit. Interior lights in my case.
    AF979E1B-2ADC-4F08-99F8-F2FDFC8B470E.jpeg
    So I’ve narrowed down my parasitic draw. Somewhere in the interior light circuit. Now to dig deeper, but for now I can just leave the fuse out instead of disconnecting the battery if it’s going to be sitting for a couple days
     
  2. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,353

    GordonC
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If I understand this correctly doing this you just pull fuses until the light goes out? At which point you know the short is in that circuit and you can start checking items in that circuit? Sounds simple enough for a non electrical guy.
     
  3. Tacson
    Joined: Jul 14, 2006
    Posts: 822

    Tacson
    Member

    What Gordon C said, lol. So once the circuit is identified you either start tracing the actual wiring or anything that might share a circuit. By the way the pictures were very helpful. Reading what you said while seeing it made all the difference.
     
  4. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    That’s it. If you pull them all and it doesn’t go out, it would be something directly on the battery, like a bad diode or something in the alternator, or some relay wiring that may have been added in later. Had that happen a few times too. So in that case after checking the fuses, I would start disconnecting the alternator wiring or pulling relays. Just keep in mind it’s all still hot so don’t let anything touch ground (alternator case, engine block, frame rails...) Doing it like this lets you rule out a lot of wiring
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  5. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,353

    GordonC
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool! Thanks!
     
  6. Or you could pull them all and put them back 1 at a time....
     
    REBEL43 likes this.
  7. I have a turn signal switch out of a 1960 F-350. Six wires. I ran a continuity test using a multimeter. No two wires have continuity to begin with. With the left turn signal switched on, I have continuity between the red and one of the two green wires. With the right turn signal switched on, I have continuity between the red and yellow wires. That makes me think that red is hot, one green is left, and yellow is right.
    I have another green, a blue and a white wire whose function is unidentified. With the blue and other green connected and one multimeter lead on red (power), the other on either the left (other green) or right (yellow), I have continuity. Same thing happens with the blue and white wires - when I connect hot with a either left (other green) or right (yellow).
    I'm guessing that the other green, the white and the blue all go to a flasher, which controls only the turn signals.
    It seems logical to me that the F-350 turn signal switch controls only the turn signal lights - no brake lights, as that would be controlled through the brake light switch that is tapped into the brake line - and that only one wire from the turn signal switch is tapped into the front and back turn signal lights for each respective side (one green for left, yellow for right).
    So which of the three flasher wires goes to which flasher terminal?
     
  8. ^^^^
    That F-350 signal switch would have the brake lights incorporated in the circuit. The six wires would be left rear, right rear, left front, right front, flasher in, and brake lights in.

    If there are not three wires in continuity when the switch is in the off position, it would indicate the switch is defective.
     
  9. Yep, what Rich said. A six wire switch includes the brake lights, a turn-only switch only has five wires. Bad switch....
     
  10. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    The 60 switch would have a brake wire on the turn signal switch like the other guys are saying.Try this out. This is from a 1956 and seems to match your colors. Continuity can be tricky sometimes, especially with an older switch that may have sat unused for a long time. Sometimes after working the switch back and forth, things can change. The only one that goes to the flasher is the blue wire (which Ford stuck with that color for a while) and it would go to the L (load) terminal of a flasher. That other green wire is hard to see, tracer is usually gone, but it's actually green/white and also notice the factory terminal is white, and a green terminal on the other green wire. So the right rear turn is solid green and the left front is a green/white. Hope this helps out.

    56 ford turn signals.jpg
     
  11. Having worked for a number of years at shop that was a Rebel Wire dealer, I've been fortunate enough to install quite a few of your harnesses. I've always been impressed by the quality and simplicity of your harnesses and when you factor in the low price, they are tough to beat. I'm currently in the process I've building a very traditional hot rod, where much of the wiring would be exposed. I was wondering do you have any plans to start producing a "cloth wire" wiring harness? Sorry if its already been covered.
     
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  12. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    We’d like to, but It’s probably not something we’ll do anytime soon. The added cost of material and equipment is one factor, but we’re always trying to grow and working on new ideas so who knows. We come up with a lot of ideas, but once you really dig into it and start to price everything, it starts running out of gas and we just go back to work
     
  13. TagMan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 5,773

    TagMan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    For anyone looking for electrical wiring hints and basic information on wiring, the September issue of "Skinned Knuckles" magazine has an excellent article on wiring.
     
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  14. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Hey guys, I was trying to send this out to someone following the thread and thinking about a 6v to 12v conversion. Couldn't get it to go through, so I figured I'd post it here. We didn't write this and don't want to take credit for it. It has a lot of good info about switching from 6v to 12v with part numbers listed.

    www.oldengine.org/unfaq/six12.htm
     
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  15. Mike_B
    Joined: May 31, 2007
    Posts: 20

    Mike_B
    Member

    FYI, I installed an American Autowire Classic Update kit on a mid 60s Chevy truck that used 8 ga wire for the charging ckt and panel feed. Can't remember what it used for headlamps and other loads, but seems like many were one size larger than OE. Back around 2006, that kit cost $500, but I'm sure it's a lot more now. I recently priced one for my 82 C10 and the cost is (are you ready?) $845.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
    REBEL43 likes this.
  16. Thanks to all three of you for guiding me toward understanding this turn signal and what I should be detecting. I'll clean up the switch with some electrical spray cleaner and see if it restores the continuity and makes this salvageable. It's only sat idle since the early seventies. Some TLC might just bring it around.
     
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  17. Mike_B
    Joined: May 31, 2007
    Posts: 20

    Mike_B
    Member

    Try Del City. They have just about any kind of terminal you can think of, including Packard/Delphi type that snap into connector shells. They even have insulated heat-shrink terminals that will melt around the wire when you use a heat gun. And you can choose from #4 gauge to 3/8" for ring terminal hole size, depending on wire gauge..

    https://www.delcity.net/store/Terminals/

    I buy several different types in neatly labeled zip lock bags of 10, 20, or whatever is needed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
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  18. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 7,228

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    This is a good one for the Ford guys : https://www.ebay.com/gds/6-to-12-Volt-Conversion-1955-Ford-/10000000001571127/g.html
     
  19. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    So while working on a project, a Mopar 318 engine, I wanted to clean up the ignition wiring. I didn't want to use the old ignition box (for cost of parts, size, looks, etc) nothing wrong with it, I'm just trying to clean up the old wiring. So I went from idea to idea, GM module mounted somewhere, and the old electronic distributor, and decided to just go with a ready to run distributor for price and simplicity. While posting some tech about it, someone asked me if it could be used on a Ford. Never thought of it, but why not? Do away with the old Duraspark box and use the same smaller module. Also found some guys using the later model Ford TFI module and the stock aluminum heat sink mounted somewhere. You can still pick up a small ready to run distributor, but the GM module would work with the stock setup, especially if you had a 302 HO or something that needed the bronze distributor gear. So here's some of the wiring ideas that came out of it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This came from a HAMB thread a couple years ago, from a Mr. Rusty O'Toole
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I still wonder if you could gut the distributor housing and just drop in a pertronix setup? Someone with more knowledge on this chime in! I'm just messing around with ideas here.
     
  20. brianf31
    Joined: Aug 11, 2003
    Posts: 422

    brianf31
    Member

    I received my harness yesterday. Very nice. The wire quality is much better than I could have bought at the parts store. Now to hook it all up to a Ford 3-wire alternator, Pertronix distributor and ididit GM column wires:)
     
  21. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Great, thanks! The Pertronix setup normally just goes to positive and negative on the coil, with our pink coil wire also to the positive. Keep in mind whether or not you need a resistor depends on your coil. The Ididit column should match up to the wire colors in the kit (purple, green, white, yellow...). About what year on the Ford alternator, older setup with external regulator? I'll post a diagram for it.
     
  22. Mike_B
    Joined: May 31, 2007
    Posts: 20

    Mike_B
    Member

    I recently installed an EZ Wire kit in a friend's 37 Chevy with 350, 700R4, full instrumentation, etc, etc. Their documentation was almost non-existent, and a call to tech support about two confusing wire labels got me a guy who was very condescending. He treated me like a dumbass even though this was my third automotive wiring job and my entire career was in electronics -- bench tech to sales, test equipment repair to factory automation.

    I can't much fault the EZ Wire kit itself, but no way would I even consider using those guys again.
     
  23. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    I've helped a couple guys out with EZ Wire kit's. I think when they deal with the same tech support you mentioned. Most of the wiring overlaps and the basic principle is the same on a lot of these kits.

    Just a heads up, but turn the fuse panel over and look at the red hot wire that runs into the back of the panel. The main bus bar is too small to fit over the insulation of the wire. So it's stripped extra long, and both terminals are just crimped on the copper. It looks more like a 14-16ga bus bar instead of using a 10-12ga. I'm not throwing off on the kit, just pointing out something in the construction we've seen at shows for a long time now.

    The product is only part of the equation. The service after the sale is a big part of it. You can buy a wiring harness anywhere, for any price, but if you can't get it all working, it's not worth a lot.
     
  24. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Oh, yeah... Here's the Ford Alternator wiring diagram. Along with a Ford generator diagram generator 3 post regulator diagram 001.jpg
    I've also seen a small box now that you can mount on the back of the old Ford alternator, and you run the ground, field, and stator wiring to it. Basically moving the regulator right to the back of the alternator. Not really a one wire, but close, and still keeping the stock amperage
    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Mike_B
    Joined: May 31, 2007
    Posts: 20

    Mike_B
    Member

    Well, make and model specific kits are available but cost 3-4 times as much. And how does a manufacturer build a specific kit for a hot rod? That said, I like to see 1 step up in wire size vs. stock (like for a 60-70s GM vehicle) for EVERY wire. I just looked at my 82 Chevy pickup's OE headlight wiring. It's 16 gauge vs. 14 gauge used in the Rebel kit. Not sure what the voltage drop would be with 14 gauge, but it has approx 1/3 less resistance than 16 gauge. I'm not overly concerned about a few tenths of a volt anywhere else. I mean 14.2 - 0.5 is still 13.7 volts.

    One more thing: I once fired up my 55 Chevy and turned on every electrical load, including radio, high beams, brake lights, A/C compressor and fan. Can't remember if I hit the horn button. Anyway, the total current draw was somewhere around 35 amps, maybe high-30s. Sure, a killer stereo amp would add to that, as would an electric radiator fan. But it sure seems to me like Rebel's 65-amp fuse panel bus and 10 gauge panel feed wire (probably 6 ft max) would handle it all. And no matter what your panel's capabilities, you're gonna use a relay for the fan.

    And please don't assume all buyers of these kits are ignorant.
    [/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
    REBEL43 likes this.
  26. I didn't, I said 'most'....
     
  27. Mike_B
    Joined: May 31, 2007
    Posts: 20

    Mike_B
    Member

    OK, just most of us. :)
    On a positive note, I like your 47 Ford, and would like to see the 56 wagon. I've always been a Chevy guy, but got tired of seeing dozens of cars like my 55 210 sedan at shows.
     
  28. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 25,281

    The37Kid
    Member

    I just have to ask if there is a more pleasing to look at and maybe better functioning battery cable end than this one? Photos of better ones would be nice to see. Bob

    [​IMG]
     
  29. 31aford
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 67

    31aford
    Member
    from az

    412D8jJ08RL._SX466_.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  30. 31aford
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 67

    31aford
    Member
    from az

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