The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by REBEL43, Aug 30, 2018.
You've said your spiel... let it be.
There’s usually nothing being said, and the electricity isn’t making any noise either. Maybe that’s why I like it. I’m not an instructional video kind of guy, or social media for that matter. If you guys let me know what you’re having trouble with, I’ll try to gear the information more in that direction. For most wiring you don’t need a degree hanging on the wall to do it. Most of mine is self taught. It may not be the best way to do it, but it works for me and the guys I’ve done tech support for
Well, for the electrically clueless I learned NOTHING, it would be the same as me shooting 3-4 minutes of block sanding and saying nothing and claim it was a lesson in body work. Bob
Is it a full moon out or what? What are you working on, or having trouble with and I’ll get you through it. One way or another
For starters the First Book of Electricity would be a good starting point, 8 years of Parodical school taught me zero on the topic. Some were in High School I could replace a battery or bulb, the rest is a total mystery. There are two or more answers to every question, the one that does not produce a fire is the correct one. I just have no desire to loose a car or garage in the process. Bob
Honestly if you have that much of a fear of catching something on fire. I’m probably not the right person to teach you. My thought process is you can’t be afraid to make mistakes, but if that’s in your head already you’re not going to sleep at night no matter how good of a job you do. Yeah I break bolts, bust knuckles and blow fuses, but I learn from it. I would love to teach you about wiring, but you need to start with some basic wiring, like a bulb then maybe a switch and get past that fear of electrical. It does get easier the more you do it, but I’m also a big believer in letting a professional do it if you’re really that uncomfortable with it. If you’re good at body work, do body work. I like troubleshooting, that’s my thing, so that’s what I do, can’t help it. If you want to try something specific with wiring, let me know and I’ll explain to the best of my ability how to do it, whether or not you’re comfortable with doing it is up to you
Wired my 49 merc about 7 years ago used the 9+3.Cadillac key in column.Had no problem.Great quality and support.
Have a nice Labor Day, the risk of wiring just isn't worth the loss. Bob
That is how I did mine, not like there are a ton of column wires, around 9 IIRC. Go one-by-one and tag them, match them up with the harness wire #. I didn't use the emergency flasher wire. My harness book is neatly marked up. Anything I added while I worked was put on a Post-It and STAPLED into the book.
This is the beauty of the kits, you really don't need a deep understanding of electricity. If you sat down with the instructions and read through them you should have learned something. I've seen supposedly real car guys that can't jump start another car without mixing up the + and -.
Also as I mentioned earlier, some of the redundancy is gone from the harness kits. This is what makes them more universal and easier to wire up. Cars up to I'd say before the time they got up to 12-volts were a lot simpler. By 1958 and forward the level of sophistication rose as more things were added like AC, power windows, etc.
Excellent point. I know some guys are saying “yeah but a premade kit makes me wire my car this way or that way...or like a GM” No, it doesn’t, our kit or any other kit. The harness doesn’t determine how you have to wire your car. Your combination of lights, switches, gauges, etc do that. To give an example, I get guys sometimes wiring an old Ford (see guys, Ford advice) and they have the old one-wire dash mounted push button. Then they upgraded the engine or bought a 12v kit with a solenoid included and it doesn’t work. Why? Because that one wire dash mounted push button is only capable of sending a ground, and that newer style Ford solenoid needs a hot signal to engage it. What’s the fix? Well, you can either change out the button for a 2 wire button that can send a hot, change out the solenoid to the same style but one that’s ground triggered, or you could even wire in a relay to do that for you. Basically these parts don’t work together, and the wires themselves don’t know the difference. They’re just the conductors used to carry whatever signal you’re supplying. Here’s the link to a couple pictures of the ground triggered Ford solenoid and adding in a relay to switch the ground signal to a hot. I’ll try to dig up the part number and add the pictures when I’m at the shop
37Kid, if wiring is that scary to you perhaps you had better stay away from it. I am a moron and I was able to wire my car with these kits. You just have to alot time to study the procedure before you start if you are new to wiring. You can't just plug it all up and have it work without thinking about it. I had some trouble with the first wiring job using an EZwire kit, but the second one was with a Rebel kit and it was a lot easier and faster once you realize its just wires connecting stuff. My very first rewire on my 32 coupe back in the 70s was all hand made by me, one wire and connection at a time. It worked fine but these kits are so much easier and neater.
Remember, it just wires with those electron buggers in them trying to find the easiest way to get out and touch ground.
Could you post up a picture or two of the crimper and crimper die(s) you use to make the two part crimp on those terminals? My preference also is to both solder and crimp when feasible. (Although occasionally I have been guilty of crimping, but not soldering.)
'KEY-ON' HOT to poles 86 and 30 on a relay. Run two separate wires or use a 'Y'? I've seen the strip and solder method, or is there a mechanical 'Y' out there to make it easier and yet secure?
BTW, I appreciate the help and will be using one of your products on a rebuild of my '49 Chevy 1/2 ton.
Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing
@REBEL 43, thanks for taking the post to share your knowledge and info, much appreciated. @The37Kid, Bob, 40nyears ago when I was at vocational tech taking auto body during my junior and senior years of high school, my friend who I rode and drove with to school every day, took electronics. One day I was telling him how I did not understand the electrical system in cars, not one bit. He explained to me I should think of a battery as a fuel tank, wires as hoses, and switches as valves. Power goes in a circle from the battery (like fuel being pumped), through the wires (hoses) and is controlled by the switches (on/off, or regulated like the dash light dimmer or the volume knob. Multiple pole switches were like a multi-function spool valve), and the negative, or ground side, was like the return line to the fuel tank. Everything is wired that way. The fact that the entire body/chassis is used as the negative (or, return) side just makes it more convenient. Back to the thread.
Yup. That’s the one.
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I’ve got a Rebel wire kit waiting to go in my plymouth, I really appreciate the tech info.
Rebel43 I have one of the 9+3 kits and installed it in my 1931 Ford roadster with a flathead. A couple of things I noticed. I have basic auto wiring skills and the kit was fairly easy to install. Model A's don't need a lot of electrical stuff. Pretty straight forward EXCEPT in the area of the turn signals. The instructions note that if you are using single socket bulbs and a multiple throw toggle switch for turn, stop, and running, then you need to get a trailer type converter to make it work. I bought 2 different types of trailer converters and for the life of me could not get either to work properly. I finally solved the problem by buying an inexpensive steering column add on turn signal/flasher unit and removed the toggle switch. I don't like the look of the add on but it solved the problem and I now have turn, brake, running lights, and 4 way flashers working properly. The only other issue I have is that the 2 flasher units do not want to stay mounted in the fuse box when it is mounted in a vertical position. Mine has 2 of them and I had to put a tie wrap and duct tape around them to keep them from popping out. Any cure for that?
On a side note I called just about the time a storm had killed your power, internet and so on... and was getting really frustrated, but you guys got back with me as soon as you could and spent whatever time it took on the phone with me and my brother working through the turn signal wiring issue to help us solve it. Customer support like that is very much appreciated and if I have need for another wiring harness in the future I would not hesitate to use your product again.
Here’s just a basic set of crimpers for uninsulated terminals, like for a brazed parallel splice terminal. I use those, then heat shrink on a lot of connections
Then on terminals requiring a crimp around the insulation and the copper, you can use something like this. This is just a cheaper set, around $15-20 on eBay. You don’t have to break the bank on some tools, especially if you’re not doing this all the time
They are adjustable and ratchet to make sure you get a good crimp.They also have removable dies if you ever need to change them. I know there are other ways of doing it and more expensive tools out there, but these work for most terminals that you’ll use on an average wiring job. I’m sure we’ll get some advice from the other guys on here that do a lot of wiring. This is just a suggestion
I remember that. The storm took out our power pole and killed phone, internet, everything. With the flashers, the manufacturers of the flashers put a step in them, and I guess on some of them the step wasn’t very far up on the terminal and wouldn’t allow it to plug in deep enough in the block. I run into it every now and then. What I’ve done is take a pair of needle nose pliars and put a little twist in the terminal, just enough to tighten up the fit in the mounting block (I know I’ll hear about that later, haha) but it works. We actually changed over to Wagner flashers and they seem to be a better fit.
I’m always glad to help you guys out with tech, been here doing it for a while and met some nice people a long the way
Yeah, it’s pretty easy to just used an uninsulated brazed parallel terminal (looks like a small metal tube) and bring one wire in on one side, and two wire out the other. Then just heat shrink it. Makes a Y to feed the power in 30 and trigger the hot 86 at the same time
Sorry, but I also have to give Rebel an unpaid endorsement. I'm not an expert, but I've built a few cars from the frame up over the years. I've used multiple different "big name" wiring kits, but none are as straight forward & easy to use as Rebel. And the biggest difference is that they give great customer support! Always helpful & friendly the couple of times I had a question.
Thanks for a great product & fantastic service to go with it!
Does a wire terminal crimp get tested by the amount of weight it can hold? Everyone's hand shake & crimper grip differs, how do you know for sure the crimp is proper before the shrink tube goes on? Bob
The great thing about the 9+3 kit is the data sheet that allows a customer to note every item not originally on the car or truck. I used a 9+3 kit ($185.00 to my door, in Hawaii!) in a '51 Ford F1 a few years ago that had a mid '70s sbc, TH350, a steering column from a chebbie van, aftermarket shifter and a couple other parts the p.o. had installed before he lost interest. I even asked for extra length up front because I was gonna make a tilt front end.
The harness worked perfectly, was easy to read and on the one question I had, Bob helped me out right away. Great stuff!
Thanks REBEL43 I'll give that a try on the flashers. Much appreciated.
There are pull weight specs for a crimp and tools for measuring that, as well as insulation/conductor height and width, but for the guy doing a rewire every now and then it’s probably not something you’re going to want to invest in. Tools ranging from something that looks like a device for weighing a fish to ones like a digital press. There are varying charts out there with lb ratings per gauge size. So the tools are out there to measure it, if you want to invest in them.
Once I get my crimpers set, or even when doing them with a simple hand crimper, I just give them a pull to check the crimp. I know it’s not an exact science, but keep in mind your wires when routed don’t need to be banjo tight and shouldn’t be under tension anyway. It doesn’t need to slip off, but it’s not used for structural support either. Like tightening a valve cover or oil pan bolt, you don’t have to torque it exact every time, just get it tight and feel it out. I might get some backlash on that, but it’s just my suggestion. What do you guys do to check your terminals when under the dash or In a tight spot?
Bear with my very elementary question. So when you turn the key to start is that just completing the circuit back to the (-) allowing the starter to engage?
What happens with a key AND push Button start????
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