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Technical Rebel Wire Harness diagrams and wiring info

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by REBEL43, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. Much appreciated. Thanks again


    Sent from my moto g(6) play using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  2. Hey Rebel43, Really good thread, have followed on n off, since the beginning.
    Question is, restoring a 1964 Oldsmobile 98 2dr. Car is not your average antique, that requires a basic wiring harness. In addition to things such as power windows, A/C and other accessories, there are many courtesy lamps.
    My main concern is, the existing fuse box has seen better days. All the fuse terminals are rusty and quite certain, it is causing numerous issues and voltage drops. How would you suggest integrating one of your wiring kits, into a vehicle, such as this? Really want to shit-can the existing fuse panel and most of the 55 yr old wiring.
    Thanks,
    JT
    Orlando, FLA
     
  3. brokedownbiker
    Joined: Jun 7, 2016
    Posts: 334

    brokedownbiker
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just my two cents- you should have everything you need in Rebel's 21 circuit kit, it is set up for power everything.
     
    jakespeed63 likes this.
  4. BDB, thanks. Truly need to remove dash and repair all the behind the scenes wiring and vacuum hoses. Truth be told, before I got the car, it sat in back of tow yard, with a broken window and varmints living inside, chewing everything they could get their paws on. ...including under dash wiring, relays, switches etc.
     
  5. brokedownbiker
    Joined: Jun 7, 2016
    Posts: 334

    brokedownbiker
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Oh yeah, just bite the bullet and replace all of it at once. You will have far fewer headaches and you'll have confidence in the cars electrics, no more hopping and wondering. When I think back over all the time I've spend laying upside down in the floorboard trying to fix problems under the dash- never again!
     
    IowaMercMan likes this.
  6. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    I rewired a 62 Buick Electra convertible for a friend earlier this year and used our 16 circuit kit. It was a mess, the only thing I left was the power window wiring inside the doors and ran a new power wire to it. left the old alternator/regulator setup (rewired it), relayed the convertible top, took the printed circuit board off the back of the cluster and wired it all as individual bulbs and gauges. The 16 circuit worked out well, the 21 would give you some extra power wires for later. If you want, I could send you some pictures of the wiring. I'm not sure, but I think it would be similar to that 64 Olds
     
  7. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,723

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Hopping and wondering :D
    Is that hopping on one foot or 2 ?:D:D
     
  8. brokedownbiker
    Joined: Jun 7, 2016
    Posts: 334

    brokedownbiker
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I recommend two :cool:
     
    Blue One likes this.
  9. Smokeybear
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 310

    Smokeybear
    Member

    Rebel 43, I'm rewiring my 48 Plymouth. I'd like to ask you to check my work. I'm using the original ignition, headlight, and dimmer switches, all of which were originally 6 volt but have been told they'll work fine wired for 12v. The ignition switch has 3 poles. One marked AM, one marked GA/RAD and the other marked COIL. I've routed the RED IGN Switch Power wire to AM, the BROWN ACC and PURPLE IGN SWITCH START to the GA/RAD post, and the PINK COIL, and ORANGE IGN SWITCH IGN to the COIL post. Inline on the PURPLE IGN SWITCH START wire I've wired the original two-prong start button. I've drawn a quick sketch and posted it below.

    Also on the headlight switch, I've wired the YELLOW LIGHT SWITCH POWER wire to the end where the glass fuse is located. I've added a black ground wire to the opposite side as the body of the switch doesn't seem to be the ground. There are two posts on each side. One one side the posts are connected with a brass contact, that side I've attached the BROWN DASH wire that runs through the original toggle that powers the dash lights. on the other side is two unconnected posts, the first is the park light power which I've run the BROWN PARK LIGHT wire to and the second is the BLUE HEADLIGHT wire. I've connected the BLUE DIMMER wire to and TAN HL LOW and LT. GREEN HL High beam wires to that. I've drawn a sketch of that and posted also. Thanks in advance.
    IMG_3108.jpg IMG_3110.jpg
     
  10. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    The ignition switch wiring should be fine. It should just be an off-on key switch, so with the key on you're sending power to the fuse panel, coil, and one side of the starter button, then using the button to send power out to the solenoid.

    For the headlight switch, do you mean you have the other side of the fuse grounded? If so, it shouldn't be, most of the old headlight switches didn't need it grounded, its all just power in and power out. I'm not sure on the terminals, as far as which is park, tail, dimmer switch etc, but I'll look. The couple pictures that I found had dash and tail on the 2 terminals connected by the strip (park could also go on there as a running light), and the other side was brake (not used) and dimmer power up front. Which you could always bench test it to see what has continuity with the battery terminal when you pull out the switch. The main thing is that ground wire, make sure it's not on a power terminal of the switch. Most of them get their grounds out at the lights themselves and the switch is just power in and out. Let me know if you need any help with it.
    Thanks,
    Jeremy
     
  11. Smokeybear
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 310

    Smokeybear
    Member

    Here is a pic I found on the internet of the switch like mine. The contacts on the right that have the bar connecting them feed the instrument panel toggle and originally powered the brake light switch (now powered by your fuse block). The two on the left are park and headlights.
     
    REBEL43 likes this.
  12. Maybe your switch is different; but here is how the ones like that I have used were wired. The fuse protected both the headlights and brake lights; but in your case you do not need it since your brake lights are powered out of the harness. That side terminal is not a ground.
    s-l1600 (1) (Medium).jpg
     
    REBEL43 likes this.
  13. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,197

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Why not use a modern HL switch with built in circuit breaker?
     
    pprather likes this.
  14. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    I think Rich B is right, that brake light terminal would be a constant hot, since it comes off that brass strip that runs off the battery terminal. The others can easily be moved around if needed. Honestly what I normally do it take a meter and check continuity between the terminals and the battery post and write down something like 1st click, this and this is hot.....2nd click of the switch, this becomes hot so it's dimmer power... I bench test most of my stuff and don't worry so much with diagrams when I can. Looks like they're stamped A (brake) H (dimmer) P (park) D (dash). I just can't tell well enough in the pictures. It's not crucial though, worst case your park light terminal goes dead when you pull the headlights on. Dash and tail lights will be hot in both clicks of the switch, dimmer will come on in the 2nd click. Definitely take the ground wire off though, and I think you've got it
    [​IMG]
    You've got it, let me know if I can help out with anything else.
    Thanks again,
    Jeremy
     
    TagMan likes this.
  15. Smokeybear
    Joined: Apr 20, 2011
    Posts: 310

    Smokeybear
    Member

    Thanks guys. Yes I did not attach that one lug to ground and when I tested it, it worked perfectly. I did move the park light to the right side of the switch so they would not go out when the headlights came on. Thanks again!
     
    REBEL43 likes this.
  16. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,723

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I’m glad the conversation has mentioned park lights recently.

    I probably asked this question before but for some reason I can’t find or remember the answer :oops: :D

    I installed my custom built 9&3 kit, Jeremy was really helpful, everything works perfectly.

    Here’s a picture of my headlight switch.

    I’d like to have the park lights stay on with my headlights also as they go out now when the headlights are on, I’m not sure how to make that happen.

    My guide headlights have dual filament bulbs so they are signals too.

    My first thought was to move the park circuit wire to the tail light post on the switch.

    867B01CF-E5A1-4EF7-B5ED-31B79E0D6BBF.jpeg E47FD13E-9D0D-42B7-9989-AA2972151C6F.jpeg
     
  17. TrailerTrashToo
    Joined: Jun 20, 2018
    Posts: 373

    TrailerTrashToo
    Member

    That will work, much easier than replacing the headlight switch with a newer design.

    Way back when, the parking lights were turned off when the headlights were turned on. Possibly because the old-time generator output was rated in mouse-farts and draining the battery was always a concern.
     
  18. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,197

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Think about having the parking lights stay OFF when headlights are on. It is much easier and safer for oncoming drivers to notice your turn signal at night. Plenty of drivers on the road that can't see well! Many shouldn't be driving!
     
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  19. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,723

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I think I’ll just leave well enough alone for now,
    that’s a valid point I never thought of.
    Thanks :cool:
     
  20. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Sorry, been out working on the shop truck today, so the keyboard is getting properly lubricated right now I've had guys do that before, move the park light wire to the tail light terminal so they're on in both positions. I think it's all personal preference, but a lot of the stock setups went out when the headlights came on
     
    Blue One and olscrounger like this.
  21. As they should!
    Retrofitted more than a few cars with combined lights to older switches; nobody liked it back then. Still don't on old cars; most all the wire kits use new GM switches with that feature; but you can still get the older GM switches where the park lights go out if don't want to look dorky(?).
    Separate park light switch top, combined switch on bottom.
    headlight switches GM.jpg
     
  22. ago
    Joined: Oct 12, 2005
    Posts: 2,197

    ago
    Member
    from pgh. pa.

    Some of the newer switches have an option to go either way. I prefer the older way, as I described above.
     
    REBEL43 likes this.
  23. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,723

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Seems that the old traditional way is to have the park lights off when the headlights are on, so that's the way it will stay.
    Thanks guys :cool:
    Thinking back over the years all my old cars and trucks were like that, I don't know what I was thinking :D
     
    Hombre likes this.
  24. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    The Cole Hersee version of the GM headlight switch has both terminals, a park that goes out, and an extra terminal up front that is on the same circuit as the tail light terminal. So you can do it either way depending on which terminal you use, and that's just a reproduction of the GM style switch, same for the BWD brand S415P switch. We have both a park and tail light wire in our kits, so you can do it however you want.

    I also wire them the older stock way, just because that's how it was wired before (park lights going out)
     
    Hombre likes this.
  25. Król
    Joined: Jun 8, 2014
    Posts: 213

    Król
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have a square coil that mounts on block on 250 chevy where do you connect ignition wire
     
  26. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    It should still be marked + and - on the coil. The coil or ignition wire would go to the +, distributor wire to the - for points, + and - for pertronix. You might need a resistor too depending on the coil. Any markings on it?
     
  27. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Seems like I've read somewhere about using a graphite pencil, to see if the spark goes toward or away from the graphite, to see if you needed to swap around the + and - on the coil? Anyone heard of doing this or done it?
     
  28. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,723

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    Can you be more specific on the + and minus for the Pertronix ?
    What's written above is a little confusing, or maybe it's just me. :D
     
  29. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 665

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    A Pertronix ignitor kit has 2 wires, a red and black wire coming off of it that runs to the + (red) and - (black) terminals on the coil. Where you'd only have the one wire coming off a points distributor, to the - side of the coil.

    The last time I used a Pertronix kit, the instructions say if you have a ballast resistor to leave it in, and if you don't have a resistor, to not use one (which didn't make sense to me) how could it work either way. What I found out is- if your coil takes a resistor, keep using it and just drop in the Pertronix kit. If you have a true 12v coil, or internally regulated coil, you don't need a resistor. It's more what the coil needs, the Pertronix kit will go along with either, provided you provide the correct voltage to the coil. Hope that helps:D
     
  30. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,723

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    You bet.
    I have a coil from Pertronix that they say is the proper one for my ignitor, so no resistor needed.
     

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