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Technical Rebel Wire Harness diagrams and wiring info

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by REBEL43, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    We just thought it might be useful to start a thread full of diagrams and information, geared toward a Rebel Wire harness, but also including information about wiring in general. We'll be adding in information and diagrams as we go. Keep in mind that things can be wired many different ways to accomplish the same result, so these are guidelines and opinions, not the wiring gospel. If you don't like it, simply do it your own way, no harm no foul. We're just here to help out our fellow hotrodders, like calling up your buddy when you're pulling your hair out over some wiring problem. Let's start with a copy of our instructions.
     

    Attached Files:

    Pist-n-Broke, 55Deso, OahuEli and 9 others like this.
  2. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Here's a picture of our Rebel Wire 9+3 kit. This kit will cover: lights (high and low beam/running lights), signals, gauges, wiper power, ac/heat power, horn, brake lights, radio (keyed and constant power), plus 3 open circuits that can be used later (1 constant hot and 2 keyed). Wires are bundled into switch bundles and labeled every six inches, printed on the wire. The fuse panel is prewired with the horn relay, turn signal and hazard flashers installed. 9+3 with bundles.jpg
     
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  3. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 9,422

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    This should be a good thread if it keeps going.
    I’ve got a Rebel 9+3 kit waiting to go into my RPU project and I will be at the wiring stage soon.
     
  4. MAD 034
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 761

    MAD 034
    Member
    from Washington

    Excellent idea!
     
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  5. TagMan
    Joined: Dec 12, 2002
    Posts: 5,773

    TagMan
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Perfect timing ! I've also got a 9+3 and will be installing it soon. Thanks and really looking forward to this one.....
     
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  6. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    So your Rebel Wire kit (and other systems) are going to have circuits made up of constant and keyed hots. Your constant hots are full time battery hot and the others are controlled by the ignition switch. So that's where the power comes from. The ignition switch has a constant battery hot running to it (ignition switch power in our case) and the heavy wires coming off of it (ignition switch accessory & ignition switch ignition) send power from the ignition switch over to the fuse panel to power the rows of fuses. From the fuse panel the power runs into different switches (headlight switch, wiper switch, heater switch, brake switch,...) then the switch distributes out power depending on it's operation. From there the power runs from the switch searching for a ground. If there's no ground, there's no power!

    So coming off of the ignition switch you'll also have the coil and starter solenoid wires. The coil wire is going to need to be hot when the key is on and in the start position. The solenoid wire will normally need to be hot in the start position only.

    (in the exception of using a starter button, the start wire may need to be hot in the ON position and then run through a starter button to send power on to the solenoid)
     
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  7. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Thanks! I'm always trying to post tech and wiring information. Don't know why It took so long to think of this!
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  8. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    If you have any questions, just ask away. I'll add more information and diagrams as we go
     
  9. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    So here's just a universal ignition switch, with it's operation. My thing with switches is: doesn't matter what it is or what it came out of. It has no idea what kind of vehicle it's in. As long as you know it's operation, you can manipulate it to do what you want. It's all just power in and power out, that's it ignition switch pic.png
     
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  10. Bounder
    Joined: Oct 31, 2011
    Posts: 248

    Bounder
    Member

    I have a 9+3 kit and it worked great in my 50 mercury. Can't beat it for the price. Sorry for the ad but couldn't resist. Plus these folks are just 40 miles from my house.
     
    REBEL43 likes this.
  11. When I was harness shopping I may have gone the Rebel way if the instruction book was available on your site at the time, but it looks very good and should bring you business. I'll try the 9+3 on my next project.
     
  12. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Anytime you guys need anything like that, just let us know. I send out diagrams and instructions all the time. I've even done some tech on other companies kits before. That's what we're there for. The shop email is rebel43jb@comcast.net or 423-263-5399
     
    mad mikey, Cosmo49 and Paul B like this.
  13. The information I never see supplied is what size wire is used for the various circuits. Does each circuit only come with a specific size, or are there optional sizes available? And what size wire is used for the fuse panel feed?
     
  14. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Each circuit is pretty much a specific gauge of wire that we use. We're normally the same gauge as stock, or one size larger. The main power for the fuse panel is a 10ga, and the wires from the ignition switch to feed the keyed hots on the panel are 12ga. We actually used to put in a wire reference sheet, but let's just say it became counterproductive at times :D Here's the wire reference sheet with the gauges New Wire Reference Page 001.jpg
     
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  15. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Bus bars in the fuse panel are crimped in a press then soldered. Wires are grouped into front and rear sections and then laid out in a jig. I forgot I've got some build pictures that I can post on here now. IMG_0400.jpg IMG_0425 (2).jpg
     
  16. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Anyone have any wiring questions, Rebel Wire related or not. If anyone needs anything, just raise your hand:D Not really sure how to start this thing off. Got a lot of information, but don't want to bombard everyone with it. So open floor...
     
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  17. Yep, just what I thought. Most of those sizes are inadequate IMO for all but the most basic car if you do a voltage drop calculation. Copying the factory isn't a particularly good idea as they use the bare minimum wire sizes needed, having all-new components to connect to, use calibrated tools to assemble them, and perform quality control to ensure operation; some things the home builder won't have. Understandable for them, because if you're building a million-plus harnesses each year even small savings can add up to big money.

    Don't get the idea I'm singling you out, I'm not; what you're selling is typical of what all of the aftermarket harness makers build (unless you buy some exact reproduction harnesses). But it's a mystery to me why for a few dollars more none of you has seen fit to offer a harness with upgraded sizes to address the voltage drop problems you'll have in many applications. I understand that these issues can be addressed where needed, but it's done by adding additional complexity/components to the harness so in the end there really isn't any cost savings.
     
  18. The 9+3 includes the GM "harmonica" style turn signal connector, correct? I have to connect the harness to a Ididit column/wiring without a ignition switch.
     
  19. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    You guys know how when you call in for help , and all the wiring guys tell you to check your grounds? Did they ever tell you or show you an easy way to do that? Well, here it is. If you know me, you know I use this trick all the time. All it takes is a simple test light, grounded to your battery ground (because that's the best ground possible). Turn on whatever you suspect the ground is bad on (usually whatever is acting crazy) and probe the ground with your test light. If the ground is bad, it will light up your test light, because it's flowing through the test light to get to that good battery ground. IMG01 (11).jpg
     
  20. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Just curious, because it's my nature, but what sizes of wire would you use? and why? I've used these in my own cars and customers cars without issue, maybe I'm lucky, but are all manufacturers in history just wrong then? That's why when I started this thread I said, "these are just suggestions and opinions, not the wiring gospel" because we're going to have differences of opinions, we are all human after all. I can say I'm not afraid to use these wire sizes, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
     
  21. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    They all come with the later GM 4 1/4 connector. The Ididit uses the 3 7/8 connector. If we know ahead of time, we'll swap it out when you get the kit. We also sell either one separately for about 9.95 with terminals
     
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  22. ryno
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,469

    ryno
    Member

    So how many cars have you actually seen burn up because the factory or aftermarket used underrated/gauge sizes wires?

    What circuits are you seeing such voltage drop at?

    I don’t think at the end of the day of the wire sizes where such an issue the factories, or a small independent company like Rebel would try to save the few bucks and jeopardize a lawsuit
    Seems like your just trolling here man. If you have some facts please post them. Not trying to be an ass, but he’s offering up help and guidance for his and most importantly other brands just to help people along. I for one can tell you that the folks at Rebel wire are class acts and will/do go way above for their customers.
     
  23. RMR&C
    Joined: Dec 26, 2009
    Posts: 2,982

    RMR&C
    Member
    from NW Montana

    I used a 9+3 in my COE a couple years ago. Seems to be working fine.
    My biggest complaint was there was no mounting base or any easy way to attach the fuse panel to any flat surface. I made a base, but was a PIA. Also a cover on the fuse panel would be great, especially if it showed the location of each fuse.
    Maybe that has changed since I bought mine?
     
  24. My thoughts on harnesses can be found here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/wiring-101.843579/
    I talk about fuse panels starting at page 6.

    And it's not opinion, it's physics....

    But boiled down, it's all about voltage drops. For a given wire size, wire length, and amp load you'll have a specific voltage drop, regardless of circuit voltage. Anything over a 5% drop (which is the maximum I will tolerate) can show up as reduced efficiency in that circuit. The most common complaint about dim lights can be traced 99% of the time to undersized wire feeding those lights, but every voltage drop consumes power that's wasted and puts additional stress on other components.

    I truly wish that someone would offer harnesses with upgrades on wire sizes, as I have a couple of cars that need new harnesses but I just don't see anything in the aftermarket that will do what I need without adding a bunch of 'band-aids' to them to get proper operation. All the components needed to build a such a harness are readily available so that's not an issue. It will just take somebody with the will to do it...
     
  25. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    We're always working on those, but keeps getting moved to the back burner in order to build harnesses. I've used a couple of different styles of mounting brackets before, and it usually comes down to they are specific to the build and a little different each time. It's definitely on our minds though
     
    mad mikey likes this.
  26. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Understandable, but what you're suggesting is a custom harness. Specific to each individual build, taking into account the individual components, provided that the specs given on said components are accurate, and taking into account individual lengths of circuits, material being used (again questioning the validity of the information given on that material), temperature changes in the environment of the electronics, etc. The best way to get that type of product is to build your own, specific to the needs of that particular build, on a case by case basis. Most of us don't have the time or resources to do that.
     
  27. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,020

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    My only input is that I'll use Rebel Wire from here on out.
    I used your harness in my truck and it went in easy and everything worked great.
    I had an issue with a turn signal blowing the fuse randomly. Called in and in 5 minutes had the problem diagnosed. I'd pinched a wire in the column and it only grounded when turned just right. I chased that thing for days before calling in.
    Product was great, Customer service was even better!
     
  28. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    We try! I probably talked to you on tech, been doing it here a long time. I know some guys don't want to call in or ask for help, but that's what we do, all day, build and tech...Whatever you run into, we've probably had the same problems on our own cars and trucks
     
    hillbilly likes this.
  29. I used the Rebel wiring harness in my car and really the only problem I had was finding quality wire end terminals. Those cheapass Chinese terminals you get in auto parts stores usually have the eyelet too small for the wire gauge and they are so cheap that they break easily and look bad. I would suggest supplying some decent end terminals to go with the harness.
    Oh yeah, this thread is a great idea/
     
  30. REBEL43
    Joined: Feb 17, 2007
    Posts: 647

    REBEL43
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from TENNESSEE

    Speaking of shorts and blowing fuses. Here's a little trick to help find a short to ground using a little 2 wire bulb. You just pull the fuse that's blowing, and plug in a 2 wire bulb in it's place. Since one side is hot and the other side is shorted to ground, the bulb will light up. When you find the short and disconnect it, the bulb will go out. Also saves a lot of fuses! IMG03 (4).jpg IMG02 (7).jpg
     

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