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Projects Rear end swap, using old brackets

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by uglysteve, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. No, a wheel bearing noise will "lessen" at a lower speed, but not disappear.
     
  2. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 276

    BLACKNRED
    Member

    should be able to pick up bearings for 30 or 40 each
     
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  3. BLACKNRED
    Joined: May 8, 2010
    Posts: 276

    BLACKNRED
    Member

    57 to 64 centres/hogs heads should be readily available.
     
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  4. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    Ok I'll still try what you said before just to see what happens, but this tends get faster and quieter as I accelerate and then disappear completely when I let off the gas. it's so loud at first you can hear it from down the street.
     
  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,673

    squirrel
    Member

    put on the parking brake, block the wheels, put it in neutral, slide under there, and see if you can wiggle the pinion yoke. Not turn it, but wiggle it forward and backward. If it's loose at all....problems. These rears have a problem where the pinion yoke can get worn away by a spinning bearing race, and become too short to apply a clamping load to the bearings, and then the pinion gear moves in and out as you accelerate/let off.

    but that's only one of many possible failure modes...
     
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  6. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,561

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Check the center support bearing in the driveshaft also.
     
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  7. I had a 37 Ford with a 10 bolt Chevy that made a similar noise, it was louder when turning left than right. Assumed it was wheels bearings, so I replaced both - no change. Looked at the gear pattern, it was good. Changed the side bearings in the diff, no change. Had two rear end shops check the back lash, pinion pre load, etc. They couldn't figure it out. Got pissed, bought a used 8.8 Ford rear end for $75.00. Swapped it in - NO CHANGE! CRAP!
    Finally figured out that the guy before me, when lowering it, had the right side shackle too close to the frame, so that when accelerating or turning left the spring eye contacted the frame and transmitted the noise to the chassis!
    Some times noises are not what we think!
     
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  8. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,124

    porknbeaner
    Member

    I am not going to say that I have done it, but we have made our own brackets and a fixture to weld them on.

    If I were going to cut old brackets off I would not use a plasma cutter. I would use a scarfing tool (air arc uses a carbon rod) like a professional welder does when a weld does not pass inspection. Then I would just blow the weld away and not cut a thing.

    Don is correct here by the way if you cannot fab your own brackets you are way ahead of the game to buy them as opposed to cutting the old ones off.
     
  9. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,405

    Torkwrench
    Member

    Don't use an impact wrench to tighten lug nuts. Use a torque wrench. For 1955 - 1964 Chevys it's 60 foot lbs.

    By the way......Do you have a factory Chevrolet shop manual? If not, get one. They are cheap and will pay for themselves the first time they are used. For a 60 Chevy, you'll need a 1958 Chevrolet shop manual, along with the 1959 / 1960 supplement. This is a good way to learn how to change the center section of the rear axel.
     
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  10. greybeard360
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,367

    greybeard360
    Member

    Having built a lot of rear ends I would say you have worn pinion bearings. The person that said the yoke wears... Never seen it happen. It will get front to rear play and will also have play in all directions. Just grab the yoke and give it a good wiggle. Find someone local that can replace the bearings and ypu should be good to go.

    Sent from my LG-H343 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,213

    F&J
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I've been using mid 50s Olds rears, and have a few. One had a slightly loosened pinion nut, and it did leave an uneven worn surface on the yoke end that seats to the bearing/spacers.

    Once the preload is gone and there is slop, the yoke movement also makes/wears some slop on the splines, which caused the odd wear on that surface. The yoke is slightly oscillating, rather than running true.

    I would say that is what he was mentioning.
     
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,673

    squirrel
    Member

    I worked on one that had a tight pinion nut, the pinion yoke washer was tight against the shoulder of the pinion, where the threads start. But there was play between the end of the yoke and the pinion bearing. Loose bearings, with a tight nut. I could rattle the pinion yoke in and out a little bit.

    Took me a little while to figure out what was going on.


    You don't need to believe it.
     
  13. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    I just replaced the center bearing with a heavy duty one from CPP a few weeks ago and same thing. I didn't notice any slop in the pinion yoke when I put everything back together but I will double check today for sure.

    Good point! I will also get under there and look to see if anything else is rubbing anywhere!
     
  14. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,561

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Did you have the car setting on the ground at ride height when you tighten the center support?
     
  15. I've got a center section you can have for free, but its a 4.11 gear. i live near Portage Indiana, so you could pick it up, its about 80 miles from Elgin
     
  16. X2, ensure the carrier bearing was tightened up with car at normal ride height. Otherwise you are preloading the rubber isolator part of the carrier bearing and it will fail quickly.
     
  17. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    I'm pretty sure I tightened the carrier bearing bolts at ride height. I did a bunch of research on that before I replaced it. I also got the CPP rear drive shaft with a slip yoke so there should be no unnecessary pressure on that carrier bearing at all.

    I guess a little history might help. It's late, I've had a few beers and have no one to talk to so I'll try not to ramble too much... :D
    I got the car just over a month ago, supposedly with a freshly rebuilt SBC400 (which turned out to be true) but it had a horrible vibration in the motor, the starter would move after like 5 cranks and would just eat up teeth on the flex plate, battery wouldn't charge and it made this crazy rear end noise. But I got it cheap and I had a feeling it was gonna be a good buy and easy to fix.

    So I got a new alternator which solved my charging issue. I replaced the mini starter with a regular sized starter, discovered there's a bracket i was missing that bolts to the back of the starter and to the engine block. Thought my rough running engine was an ignition issue at first so I put a new HEI distributor in, plugs, wires, I even got one of those MSD boxes, which I've never had before. Thought it might fix it, didn't fix it. I pulled my valve covers and ran it to see if I had a broken valve spring or anything, looks brand new inside. I also thought I had a valve ticking but it just was hitting the valve cover. New valve covers, no more ticking. Did more research, turns out the 400 is externally balanced and needs a specific flex plate with a weight on it. My flex plate was put on wrong and was all chewed up (from the starter issue) so I got a new flex plate on the right way and now it starts and runs nice and smooth! I'm thinking the dude I bought this car from got fed up with it thinking it had a bunch of major issues and everything so far has been way too easy to fix.

    So next was that weird noise coming from probably the rear end. I had a rebuilt TH350 in the garage from another long gone project so I put that in, and did the carrier bearing and drive shaft to see if that made any difference. None of that got rid of the noise but at least now I've got a totally rebuilt drive train, minus the rear end. I just ordered new wheel studs and shop manuals so I can fix that and then try whats been suggested so far.

    I appreciate all the help so far you guys!
     
  18. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    Pictures? You guys like pictures? I found a broken spring in the back so I've also cut 1 1/2 coils off the good side and 1/2 coil off the broken side since these were taken. It sits almost level, slightly lower in back now. I know 4 doors aren't the coolest but I got 2 little boys and I bought this to be the family cruiser. I might bag it. But it rides so nice now I may just static drop it a little more. I'm thinking about either supremes or chrome smoothies to replace the mags. I want to flake the roof. You can see some rust in the rockers and the one rear door, but everything under the car is unbelievably clean and the floors have been done already. The paint is pretty good. So I'm not even gonna worry about fixing rust for now.

    IMG_7778.JPG IMG_7777.JPG IMG_8121.JPG
     
  19. Looks like a nice family cruiser. Astro Supremes with skinny whites is a great combo on that car. Since you have replaced almost everything else, you need to do some of the rearend evaluations suggested. Just figure out where the problem is and then fix that, just like you have done on the other engine and trans issues. Good on using hte rear driveshaft with the slip yoke, that should eliminate any problem with carrier bearing. I did that on my 59 El Camino, it is really the best fix for the 2 piece driveshaft.
     
  20. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,405

    Torkwrench
    Member

    That's a nice looking "60". There's nothing wrong with a four door. Especially, with a family. Here's a couple of photos of my old Impala.

    scan0001.jpg scan0002.jpg

    Are you going to The Iron Invasion in Woodstock ILL, tomorrow? Might be able to find a rear end center section there.
     
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  21. upspirate
    Joined: Apr 15, 2012
    Posts: 2,089

    upspirate
    Member

    Another aspect on the rear swap, if you go to Ford rear as you mentioned, the wheels & spare won't fit
     
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  22. "I guess a little history might help. It's late, I've had a few beers and have no one to talk to so I'll try not to ramble too much... :D
    Not bad hand-writing for a guy whose had a few beers !
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
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  23. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    Awesome! I like the flat top! I usually go every year to Iron Invasion but I'm missing it this year. Gotta go to a wedding.
     
  24. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,405

    Torkwrench
    Member

    Thanks. It was a cool "60", but being a hardtop, it leaked a lot of water, when it rained. Didn't drive it much anymore, so it was sold. Now it lives in New Jersey, and has since been named "Chica"......:eek:
     
  25. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    OK so I picked up a center section from a fellow HAMBer a couple days ago. I've got my axles out and fluid drained, I'm waiting on a couple gaskets which should be here today or tomorrow. When I pull the pumpkin out and put the new one in do I need to use any specific RTV sealant or anything on it? Or will just the new gasket be enough? Looks like there's gray sealant on the one that's there now.

    Hopefully I'll be cruising by Wednesday! Can't wait.
     
  26. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    Well....I found out why the rear end was making noise....the whole carrier was super loose. I found a bunch of broken teeth. I took a video too so if you guys wanna watch my rear end wiggle watch THIS...haha
     

    Attached Files:

  27. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 43,673

    squirrel
    Member

    I use Permatex Aviation sealer on the gasket, although if I plan to change the gears in the near future, I just put it between the gasket and housing, and leave the carrier side dry.

    Looks like a mess. And it's a posi, eh? the parts are worth some money, if they're not trashed.
     
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  28. EZ Cool
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 260

    EZ Cool
    Alliance Vendor

    I've re-used axle brackets several times. I cut them off my holding the torch at an angle where back side of the cut is right next to the axle housing. This produces a beveled edge and when you weld it on the other housing you can get some good weld penetration.
     
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  29. uglysteve
    Joined: Feb 15, 2011
    Posts: 312

    uglysteve
    Member
    from Elgin, IL

    Yep it's a posi. Looks like just the ring and pinion are trashed. I didn't spend a lot of time checking it out but I will. Good to know, maybe I can get a few extra bucks out of it! How much we talkin here?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016

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