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Technical Rear Drums Squeak But Not Always

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnny Gee, Oct 7, 2021.

  1. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,324

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    I never had any luck with self adjusters, I remove them, drill a small hole in the backing plate and put a rubber plug into it until I need to adjust.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  2. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Still stock set up so no self adjusters.
     
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  3. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Went back to pick up shoes (store had to bring them in).
    Box contained all secondary shoes.
    Counter person had no idea what I was talking about.
    Told him bring another set in, I'll bring used samples tomorrow for you to see.
     
  4. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,324

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    We used to run two secondary shoes (the longer shoe), it gave more braking area.. It seemed to work.
     
  5. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,001

    Budget36
    Member

    Damn, seems like a good idea and something that won’t attract shit and turn it into valve grinding compound!
     
  6. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Second set came in. Samething, all secondary. Placed a call to out of the way auto supply since the 50's. No money up front, will be in by 9 a.m. tomorrow. Stay tuned.
     
    bobss396 likes this.
  7. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,467

    gene-koning
    Member

    A lot of the "new" brake shoes use the same lining for both the primary and the secondary shoes. I guess the modern mechanics don't work on drum brakes much anymore and don't understand the reason for the different shoes in the box. I can't count how many times I've seen brakes with both short shoes on one side of the car and both long shoes on the other side. If you talk with some of those guys, they complain the companies are cheating the customers because they are putting 2 shoes with short lining in each box. To solve the problem, many brake shoe companies are only using the secondary shoes and they are using the same material for all of them. There are no primary and no secondary shoes in most boxes anymore, just two pairs of brake shoes. Gene
     
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  8. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Sad
     
  9. And people wonder why I buy 90% of my parts online...
     
  10. I doubt that many modern "mechanics" have done much drum brake work. I recall the day when shops knew nothing about disc brakes and sent them elsewhere.

    Even back around 1975 I would see anything and everything under a brake drum. Mixed up shoes, grease on linings to keep them quiet, self adjusters removed to get better gas mileage. Broken parts, they would change shoes and use the old corroded hardware. Or not cut the drums, new shoes would be all grooved up. Good times.
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  11. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,324

    Elcohaulic
    Member

  12. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Your doing good then. In my case description and photo supplied don't always match. Just like the shoes did when reviewing them on line before going to chain store to buy them.
     
  13. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 1,895

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    My old Bronco would start squeaking pretty bad, even sounding like the shoes were shot. Pull the drums, full of dust each time, and no more squeaking for a while. Started thinking about it, and it hardly ever left town, short trips for groceries and such, so lots of brake use but very little fast rotation to let the dust work it's way out. Used it for commuting for a while, no noise, so pulled the drums to check, and it was dust-free
     
  14. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Since late August the car has been lots of places (Santa Margarita, San Diego, Ventura, Bakersfield) via highway speeds since being back together.
     
  15. If these are brand name shoes, I suspect that there might be a "1-800" number you could call with any tech questions. If not, their website probably has an email account you could contact that would answer these kinds of questions.

    If they say their shoes are now the same length and material for primaries and secondaries I'd run them and not lay awake at night worrying about it.
     
  16. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Well I'm on the 3rd box. This last box is from another store that's independent and been around since the mid 50's. This 3rd set are from Bosch now and same thing, all secondary shoes or should I say universal now. Did talk to head guy at Allied Auto Parts (Pasadena Ca.) and he confirms what @gene-koning said a few replies back.

    I'll just check arc, adjust them as needed then bevel leading edge only and give them a go.

    As far as staying awake, I won't. Multiple reasons for doing it this way now I suppose. Dumb consumers made manufactures liable that their vehicle didn't stop correctly after not installing properly. One less step at the manufacturing plant?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  17. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,467

    gene-koning
    Member

    Probably more profitable for the manufacturers as well, all the same material, all cut the same length, all bonded to generic steel shoes, no special training for assembly employees, throw the same 4 shoes into the box and send it down the line.
     
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  18. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,324

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    They look like my 2" X 11" shoes from my 64 Bonneville.. I have a few sets of them and they have the asbestos in them.. Put the measurements on this thread and maybe we can come up with a decent set of shoes for you..
     
  19. And that's probably as good a reason as any. . .
    :rolleyes:
     
  20. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 7,890

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    At least they're not selling all primary shoes.
     
  21. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Size would be 11" X 1 3/4" and thanks for the offering, I'm good. I could make this new set have primaries if I really wanted to. Call it a cop out that I don't, but how else will I see the over all affect. Just upsetting that something that was designed for a reason has been deleted.
     
    Elcohaulic likes this.
  22. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Update. Shoes out of the box fit drums pretty well but one. By eye I could see about a 3" portion was a little thicker and I removed lining material as needed. All though crude it's poor mans arcing at best using a socket of equal diameter as anchor pin and mocking shoes in the drum with adjuster for just enough tension to hold shoes from sliding. Also chamfered leading edges.

    Assembled shoes to vehicle and no way to get shoes to center left to right (remember me mentioning earlier that e brake cables were to tight?). As per manual after brakes have been installed and adjusted, e brake needs to me checked for correct adjustment. What happened is Park Brake Link does not allow shoes to rest on anchor pin correctly when not enough slack is present. This was the cause of the offset.

    With e brake cable readjusted there still was an issue even though shoes now float left to right easily and recenter well. With a wire pointer fashioned onto axle flange the issue surfaced. The shoes are too low. Only one thing I can do. Rework shoes at anchor pin location to bring shoes up. But that will be for another day. Tri-Fives in Bakersfield this weekend!
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
    bobss396 and Elcohaulic like this.
  23. The last bastion of hope is find a good old set of shoes that fit well and have them relined...........but that is truly sad.
     
  24. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 239

    Glenn Thoreson
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    A couple of years ago I bought two sets of new shoes with bonded lining for my "42 Ford and my '29
    V-8 with hydraulic brakes. There were not any two shoes out both sets that had the same length of lining. My mind started to boggle. I was also pissed. Has the world gone mad? I paired them up as good as I could and put them on. They stop the cars okay and I guess that's all that matters. I have some old shoes with proper linings, or what's left of them. Next time I'll send them in for relining with a note to keep the linings correct. We'll see about that.
     
  25. Doesn't your '56 have adjustable anchor pins? Maybe eccentric in the mount hole.
     
  26. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Negative. Been sitting thinking along the lines of what you've brought up since my last post. If I oval anchor pin hole so I can make adjustments to where it exactly needs to be that would be better than an eye ball measurement guess and would be great for future brake jobs.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
    Elcohaulic likes this.
  27. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,324

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    The anchor pin adjustment is just as important as the other adjustments but many never bother with it... It's also a reason many who have excellent drum brakes swap to discs.

    I had a 64 Pontiac with 8 lug aluminum wheels. I had a local company rivet new linings to the old shoes frame. I asked them what's a good lining to use. They recommended the lining that's used in cabs, Police cars. They said I didn't want any race car material on a street driven car. So I went with it. Wow was I surprised at the brake performance and it would only get better and better. It did..

    [​IMG]
     
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  28. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 7,072

    BJR
    Member

    Where I work we get brake shoes relined all the time. They all come back with the linings the same length, primary shoe and secondary shoe same length linings. They seem to work OK so I guess it doesn't matter.
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  29. That's kinda interesting. Back when Bendix brakes had up-down adjustable anchor pins, the shoe arcing machines just held the shoes and cut the set radius. When brakes went to fixed anchor pins, the arcing machines were changed to locate the shoe off the anchor pin notch using gauge plates specific to the shoes being arced. So there is more to arcing the shoes than just cutting the radius to drum diameter with fixed anchor backing plates. Wonder how the manufacturers do things now-a-days; probably figure people will just let them wear in.
     
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  30. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,389

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Partial update to a late start. Morning rain and now gardener showed up so I covered car back up and I'm here now.

    Did one side with success. Measured at best by eye with a dial indicators held at true vertical and found .080" difference from top to bottom. What to do? Do I oval backing plates for anchor pin to be adjustable or oval anchor point of shoes? I choose shoes because they were cheap and easier to throw away than missing up backing plates.

    The oval I worked at best to achieve was one of a flat in the middle with corresponding radius equal to anchor pin so shoes would ride up by .040" from the tension of the return springs so shoes can center themselves to axle center line. It worked!. Now I'm able to set shoe's width equal to drum's diameter with out any binding when placing drum onto wheel studs and seating drum firming against axle flange.

    I don't think there should be any issue with shoes getting wedged and binding in theory since primary shoe has no way of governing it's self via any sort of pivot point. We'll see?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021

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