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Technical Rear Drums Squeak But Not Always

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Johnny Gee, Oct 7, 2021.

  1. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Back story. 1956 Chevy 210 with all stock from factory type brake parts when car was bought in May of 2020 with no brake noise then. Today it has dual master 1" bore pot belly Corvette type master and all new wheels cylinders front and rear. Brake pedal is firm, no air in system, proper rod adjustment.

    So why the squeak?
    Could it be that connecting links should be at a true horizontal plain to wheel cylinder like this example...
    [​IMG]

    As opposed to this example where links are slightly angled which is how things are on the car currently...
    [​IMG]
    It seems (big guess) to me rear shoes are not getting ample force applied leading to squealing.

    Any other thoughts and things to look for?
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  2. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,651

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A couple of my friends that are now gone used to put wheel bearing grease on the shoe rubbing spots. They would grind them until they were mostly smooth. They said that just made the shoes move better.
     
    dana barlow and dan c like this.
  3. olscrounger
    Joined: Feb 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,368

    olscrounger
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    something odd-never seen shoes and cylinder links at an angle like that-maybe shoes??
     
    ClayMart likes this.
  4. Are these pics from both the same side? The example and yours..

    Looks like the spreader bar/spring and self adjuster arm are all back wards from each other and the nut holding things together.....
     

  5. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Exactly. Not the first time I've run into this odd alignment. Today's stuff just makes me...

    Both pic's are not from vehicle in question. I pulled them from the net since I'm limited in up loading skill's. And yes, I caught the one adjuster being backwards.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  6. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 9,994

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I’ve always chamfered the leading edge of each shoe about 120*. Learned it from old brake techs at Sears in the 60’s. At that time we did it with arcing machine. Today I do it with a body file.
    White brake lubriplate on the backing plate rests. Both done for squeaking drum brakes.
    Neither photo has the shoes chamfered……
     
  7. Rice n Beans Garage
    Joined: Dec 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,558

    Rice n Beans Garage
    Member

    Like Jimmy six said, chamfer the shoes, I have found that brake dust in the drum, at the edge of the wear area to the drum face, in the little corner will cause squeak, wash the drums out...
     
    dan c, gimpyshotrods and Johnny Gee like this.
  8. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Weather today doesn't seem to know if it's going to rain or not. Car stop's fine but people get pissed when they see/hear a 65 year old car with brakes that make noise. They assume the worse only because it bothers they're ears and yell out "fix your brakes!". I'll see what I discover and do Monday.
     
    Truck64 likes this.
  9. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 7,149

    BJR
    Member

    Back in the day when I had a car with brake squeal and bonded linings, I would take a hack saw and cut an X across the face of the lining. It gave the brake dust a place to go, and stopped the squeaking every single time.
     
  10. Elcohaulic
    Joined: Dec 27, 2017
    Posts: 2,466

    Elcohaulic
    Member

    Pull the drums and look for the copper or steel that you see in the shoe. Grind them out and put it all back together and drive it..
    Don't put grease any were near brake linings.. I cover up the linings with masking tape..
     
  11. jaracer
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 1,224

    jaracer
    Member

    How do the shoes fit the drum? They should contact in the middle of the shoe with a couple of thousands clearance at each end. That's what shoe arc machines were for. If you have a good brake service in you town they should be able to fit the shoes to the drums.
     
  12. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 3,524

    2OLD2FAST
    Member
    from illinois

    Ill throw this out there , IIRC , some hard compound , you couldn't stop the squeal regardless of what you did . When the squeal , they are bouncing on the surface , mounting , mismatched at , chamfering , contamination , are all that come to mind .
     
  13. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 9,994

    jimmy six
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not an answer for squeeking but I buy the softest linings I can get. I don’t mind changing shoes but I don’t want to buy drums.
     
    1oldtimer and Johnny Gee like this.
  14. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 30,043

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So you have 50 guys studying photos to try and give you and answer and those photos aren't even of your own damned brakes? Come on now you just wasted a total of probably 50 hours of guy's time trying to give you an answer and they aren't even your own brakes.
    Brake squeaking is more often than not is caused by dirt on the lining. If you live on a gravel road there is your answer. Some lining will squeak and quite often it is the better grade lining that lasts longer and stops better that seems to do it.
     
    deathrowdave and VANDENPLAS like this.
  15. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    I guess pictures are not worth 1000 word's no matter how well they describe what it is I'm conveying. And where did 50 come from? Isn't 15 minus 3, 12?
     
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 18,692

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not a whole mess of gravel roads in Downey.
     
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  17. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Also, rocks/gravel sound different.
     
  18. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 414

    SS327

    Anti seize on all anchor points and pivot points. A groove across the shoes will help also.
     
    seb fontana and BJR like this.
  19. Some linings, metallic or semi metallic especially, will just squeal no matter what you do. Aside from chamfered ends as has been suggested there’s not much else to be done honestly.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  20. Did you sand and clean the shoes and drums after you replaced the wheels cylinders ?

    could just be done contamination , dust / oil / grease .
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  21. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    As far as oil or grease not an issue. I did however just knock the drums on the ground to remove dust and did not do any further house keeping as I most often do. Also to note, before new wheel cylinders when there wasn't any noise for newly a year, brakes shoes had a lot of slack in them before making any contact to drums. Especially the rears. This would/could cause leading edge of secondary shoe to be affected from uneven wear and where the bite is occuring.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  22. It comes down to materials now with older cars. Some make more noise with semi metallic shoes/old drums (old as in either original or 70s and old replacements), some don't like organic material. The worst used to be the "dust free" version. Cutting channels in the shoe material is mainly used for brake fade to help dissipate heat, but it can help with dust too. I would try to sand the shoes with a 400 grit, just to break the surface, turn the drums ending at a SLOW speed, clean out the drum while on the lathe, turn on the lathe and hit it with some 400 grit also. Moving the sandpaper at a steady speed in and out (drum face to drum edge), when your done you'll have a nice crosshatch pattern. Clean the drum with brake cleaner and a clean rag (I usually spin it on the late while spraying and then firmly using the rag to wipe up). You might have to experiment with different shoe materials.

    This is assuming your talking about brake application squeak and not shoe return squeak after you let off the pedal.

    Does it squeak on slight application (very slight drag) and then go away after the pedal is pushed a little harder or on stopping pedal pressure?
     
    HemiDeuce and VANDENPLAS like this.
  23. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Application only. Slight application yes and goes away when harder pedal is applied.
     
  24. Doublepumper
    Joined: Jun 26, 2016
    Posts: 1,080

    Doublepumper
    Member

    Tired springs can sometimes cause application squeal. A harmonic vibration can occur from the lack of adequate spring tension, until there's enough pressure on the shoes to override it.
    Sometimes swapping the drums from side to side will stop a persistent squeal.

    Just some thoughts......
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  25. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 7,956

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I was thinking something like that too. They make shoes with rain grooves but it may also help with harmonic vibration or dust.

    [​IMG]

    Also I had a problem with one rear wheel locking up not long ago. Adjustment didn't help but swapping the shoes and drums left to right fixed it. No idea why, just glad it did.
     
    seb fontana likes this.
  26. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 7,246

    Budget36
    Member

    Let it squawk. Let’s them know you’re coming;)

    But I thought squeaks were from metal to metal contact, like wetting your finger and rubbing around a glass?
     
    Johnny Gee likes this.
  27. i7083
    Joined: Jan 3, 2021
    Posts: 31

    i7083
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    We used a tire crayon to lube the contact spots on the backing plates. Just scribble on 'em. Usually, cleaning the dust out fixed the squeaks. :)
     
    Budget36 likes this.
  28. Take everything off and use a good hi-temp white lube on the backing plate to show contact points. Make sure the linings are not glazed. Glazed linings make the most noise from my experience. I also bevel the ends of the rear linings using a wood rasp.
     
  29. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 9,471

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    Yesterday weather wasn't so good. Today I tore into things and found this thus far. E Brake cable to tight. Dust. Leading edges not making contact so rule out beveling existing shoes. Shoes are glazed and have a few cracks. Drum surface is fine but scuffing will be required. Off to taking in law to dialysis center then part's store.
     
    VANDENPLAS likes this.
  30. Glenn Thoreson
    Joined: Aug 13, 2010
    Posts: 264

    Glenn Thoreson
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    I have had this problem with new shoes that squeaked and chattered and would not fix. A number of things can cause this problem. Most of which have been addressed here. Some modern linings I've gotten will absorb moisture from the atmosphere and squeak like hell until they get hot. I've also run into instances where bonded linings just would not quit squeaking, period. Riveted linings fixed most of those issues. Maybe some of the old timers had it right, run it for a few miles with one foot on the brake and the other on the gas. When the smoke comes out, it's fixed. :)
    Addendumb -- Do your drums have anti chatter springs around the outer circumference? Have they been turned more than .60" oversize? Those springs do a good job of eliminating squeaks. Overly thin drums need to be replaced.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021

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