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Technical Realizing your work is...substandard

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by F-ONE, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,308

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Neither do I. But unless a line is short and dead straight it has to be adjusted to fit. In most cases the fit is not that precise but in some cases you do have to get it exactly right. Usually you are ok if you are an inch long in 2 feet or 2 inches in 4 feet or more. It is easier to deal with a line that is a little long than one that is too short.
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  2. Been there, done that...



    Sent from my iPad using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  3. 59Apachegail
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,091

    59Apachegail
    Member
    from New York

    I was always hit or miss with old fashioned flare tools. First flare went perfect but I could never get good enough leverage when making my second flare. I found a Papco 400 and have been making good double flares ever since. [​IMG]
     
    F-ONE, 31Vicky with a hemi and czuch like this.
  4. Rocky
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,392

    Rocky
    Classified Editor

    It's my welds that always seem substandard to me but I've tested them in my vice and they're always strong like bull! So I take my die grinder to the tops of those welds to knock off the "high spots" and they look even worse. I've spent hours filling the low spots, grinding off the high spots and then hitting them with the 3M disc....on places you can't see with the body on.
    Then I work on my wiring.....arrange all the wires in a nice straight line with quality clamps and it looks great! Up until I look at a wiring thread to see other guy's wires exactly the correct length and each wire never crossing another wire from one end to the other end....GAK! Never the less, everything always works as it's supposed to. I'm just glad a lot of this shit is hidden when the car is completed. 34wiring8_17.jpg
     
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  5. Rocky
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 14,392

    Rocky
    Classified Editor

    On the other hand....I have a buddy, Johnny B who is so anal he NEVER gets a hotrod project done.
    He's had multiple early cars in his garage and he does absolutely magnificent work on them but never finishes them and gets pissed off at some little imagined flaw in his work and sells them...wish I had a photo of the 55 IHC shortbox he did with a 327/400 turbo in it...did flawless black paint.
     
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  6. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 929

    LM14
    Member
    from Iowa

    I tend to finish something and walk away basically satisfied. The next day I'll stand and stare at it, sometimes for 5 seconds, sometimes for half an hour. If it makes me smile, it's fine and gets to stay. If I question one thing about it, it's probably coming back out to be re-done. I know if I leave it half assed I'll regret it, it will haunt me and I'll see it every time I walk up to the vehicle. I know I can't let stuff go like that.

    I try to do good work, know my personal limits and learn new things without making messes that others will have to clean up. Skills improve (hopefully), we add new skills and hone old ones. It's part of the learning curve. If I can't do it the way it should be done and look correct, then I have a network of friends I can call on.

    SPark
     
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  7. Most things I'm okay with as good enough. I used to build stock cars and bring the reliability mindset into everything I do... what will put me out of a race? I'm fussy about my wiring, but not anal. Brake lines have to look good and not leak. All visible hardware has to match.. I'm anal about that. On my '59 Ford about 95% of the hardware I used on the assembly is new.
     
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  8. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,195

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    31 Vicky with a hemi,
    It's about both things. It's far better to realize early on than later on.

    I have been following. I'm impressed that you would take on such a project.
    In your diligence to make it right and doing so while keeping the owner happy.
    That whole truck you are working on just boggles the mind. It's as if the previous "builders" threw a lot of money at it just to see what would stick.

    It's one thing to build one up and do a quality job. It's quite another to go behind and clean up someone's mess.
    You are doing a fine job with that "Crap Eraser".
     
  9. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,195

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Update...

    I try another old fashioned bar tool of better quality. I rented/purchased it from Auto zone. I can get my money back if I wish. It does much much better.
    Another thing too is this Cunifer/Ni-Cop line is unforgiving on the second step. It's real easy to go too far with it smash the second flare. It takes a firm but somewhat gentle touch. This bar tool makes straight flares while the other one would make crooked ones.
    While not absolutely perfect, I tested these flares on a master I had on the bench and I have full contact on the flare and the cone in the fitting.
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

    After blowing out my line I tape it up so no dirt gets in there.

    A word on Pre-Bent line sets....

    Many suppliers offer pre bent lines. These may work for some runs. In my case, it would have been difficult at best to use pre bent steel lines. I tried to pre bend to a point but I had to straighten most of the bends out to thread it through the chassis.
    Pre Bent lines are really for running lines on a bare chassis....no engine..bare frame. I would have at least had to remove the steering gear to run a pre bent line.
    The good thing about this ni cop line is I can go back and tweak the runs to better follow the factory route You can see I still have some tweaking to do on the crossmember. It looks way better now.
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr

    Another good thing with this type of line, You can tweak the fit with your free thumb while trying to thread a fitting. That's very difficult with steel and especially stainless line.

    I spent hours under a Chevrolet 25 years ago trying to fit a steel line to a fitting. That job was a simple hose replacement using the factory line. I had to stop, eat a sandwich, come back and hold my mouth right to fit that line on that old Chevy.
    This stuff works so Easy.
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
    Here's whats next.
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
    On a historical note, notice the red oxide prime on the underside of the bed. Most of the time It rains rust under a old one. This truck rains undercoat. I wonder if the red oxide was a prep for under coat or if all of them were painted on the underside with red oxide in the early 60s?
    If you notice the rubber has come out of the Parking brake cable mount. While it may be a little unfair to blame this as substandard work on PO's part it did have somewhat dire consequences.o_O
    [​IMG]Untitled by Travis Brown, on Flickr
    Gotta Love it!:rolleyes: And....the inside of the wheel is well greased and That is the good side. So we all know what that means. The other cable by the way has got into the passenger tire as well. Not as bad but still...
    You can see the snowball....Good brakes require good lines....
    Good brakes require a good parking brake....
    Good brakes require good axles.....
    well greased brakes don't work too well.
    In a sense I believe it's harder to repair one intact than it is to build one up after being blown apart.
    This stuff was a lot easier when I was 20.
     
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  10. Fedcospeed
    Joined: Aug 17, 2008
    Posts: 1,964

    Fedcospeed
    Member

    And just because "no one will see this way under here" is NOT an excuse for doing a crap job on something either.Keep your standards high on the whole project and it will be so much more satisfying when its done. My welding instructor back in high school always said "Quality,not quantity". Thats was nearly 40 years ago and I still remember that.
     
    Bandit Billy likes this.
  11. At some point, you're either satisfied with your own work or you're not. Either you raise your skill level by repeatedly doing the same work until it meets your standards, or you lower your standards to meet your mess. Generally that comes at a point where you've given up on yourself and move on to the next thing you'll half-ass.
     
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  12. The second step with the cone should never ever be smashed flat in the tool.
    The fitting's cone (down in the middle) distorts the line to make a conforming perfect match.
    It's really really really important that fitting's cone isn't messed up.
     
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  13. jazz1
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,182

    jazz1
    Member

    487B513F-927D-4392-B6F9-D62E279CB1F6.jpeg I have adapted well to my substandard work. My guesstimate was a bit off but I can deal with it. Tin for OT (boat)project I’m tinkering with
     
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  14. Der Cobmeister
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 4

    Der Cobmeister
    Member

    Vell, as der Amish say, "Ve grow too soon oldt, und too late schmardt!" As for the flaring stress, I've always had good luck with an Imperial Eastman double flaring tool by following these guidelines: 1. ALWAYS make sure you ream out the tube after using the tubing cutter. Ifya don't, you'll 9 times outta 10 break off the stem end of the "button" ya put into the line for step 1 of the process, or end up with an off center flare. 2. Leave the line up from the body of the clamping part of the tool by the thickness of the "head" of that "button" you're gonna stick in there to do step 1. Too much or too little protrusion will lead to Fubar. 3. LUBE the end of the tube. I like Lucas hub oil. This whole flaring thing is kinda like sex, dry will make Ya CRY. 4. Go nice & snug on the final step, after Ya remove the button. If the tool is well lubed, the head won't turn in the line. If in doubt, lube the line again. 5. Oh yeah, DON'T fergit to put that damn nut on the line before Ya flare it!!!
     
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  15. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 3,318

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I have issues, admitting, but I try to make everything as nice as I possibly can be it under or on top or inside the car.
    upload_2018-3-19_12-31-40.png
    I don't mind working with SS, you need an excellent flaring tool, good pipe bender and I make the lines first out of junk tubing lying around. I still have had to junk a SS line but it is rare. The more you do it, the better you get.
    Like a coach I had in school used to say, "practice will make you perfect but only if it prefect practice"
     
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