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Technical Realizing your work is...substandard

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by F-ONE, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. VANDENPLAS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 869

    VANDENPLAS
    Member

    When floating brake lines it’s a process

    1.Cut the tube with a tube cutter ( not a hacksaw, cut off wheel etc.)

    2. File the cut end flat, I put a file flat on the table and run the line accross a few times to get rid of burrs.

    3. Ream the hole ( the tube cutter pushes some material inside when cutting)

    4.set the line correctly in the holder to start forming the flair. ( for the first step the line should stick up out of the holding tool the same amount as the die is thick)

    5. Install the die and press it down ( I put some brake fluid on the die as a lube, seems to help.

    6. Remove die and flair the crushed end with the flair tool.

    7.done

    8 SHIT !!!!!! Did I forget the fitting again !!!! Gatdammit every frickin time !!!!
    Been doing lines fir 20 years and it still happens ...... a lot !!

    I have an old imperial flair tool and a snap on one both old and work well
    Check swap meets etc for older tools for cheap.

    Practice make sure perfect, you can’t run if you never learned to walk.
     
    deucemac, Gotgas, trollst and 2 others like this.
  2. Just earlier this week I was having a talk with my wife about "why" things are important. Basically it was about life, and decisions made with children create adults. But as I always do I pulled a mechanical and car related analogy. I picked a few of the most seemingly innocuous and mundane items and operations to explain the point and how they can lead to the being non functional. I wrapped that up with a point that every single component can do that, and that there are no components that work alone. If any of the supporting or seemingly secondary components are not right the problem still arises. There is a separation between systems, and one system can not effect another system causing a falure in another's but it still results in an inoperable vehicle with a perfectly functional systems because one failed.

    Experience of seeing failures, correcting falures, and even creating falures is a good teacher. Sometimes it takes a moment, sometimes a while.
     
    INVISIBLEKID, vtx1800 and F-ONE like this.
  3. Ok, so if it's about shitty tools, they cause problems.

    I have a mastercool tool. I bought it because it makes fuel line ends, quick connect ends, power steering line ends, and even iso bubbles and inverted flairs. For just brake lines it's a royal pain in the ass to use. I need 4 hands to use it, it's a 2 man tool and nearly impossible to use for on car repairs.

    A good flair quality flare tool will last almost a life time for a hobbyist , In order for it to work correctly the process starts with a good cut, it has too. So a quality cutter is also a must. A good flair starts with a good cut, get that wrong and it will end wrong. Square, clean no burrs.

    The secret is not a completely smashed flat end with the cone . That female fitting will force a seal and fit by completing the formation of the invert. Female fittings should be checked for problems, they are machined and very capable of being wrong or damaged. Since the final seal and shape is dependent upon the female,,, make sure it's right too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
    trollst and F-ONE like this.
  4. spooler41
    Joined: Feb 25, 2007
    Posts: 1,102

    spooler41
    Member

    Rusty, your sub par is looking great,I love it !
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  5. Not sub standard. Who set the standards anyway? I call my cars "20' cars" - look ok from 20'.
     
    deathrowdave and F-ONE like this.
  6. The Shift Wizard
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 925

    The Shift Wizard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Yes. :cool:
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  7. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,629

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    I fought with getting the results I thought I could for years and realized I was my own worst enemy. When I was young and didn't have any money, I bought tools by price and thought that the tool's limitation was mine. As I got older I realized I could get higher quality (and make it easier besides) by buying a better QUALITY tool. I didn't say more expensive, just spend a little more time shopping and researching tools before buying.
    I've fabbed tubing for years and the most important part of bending and flaring? SLOW DOWN. Don't take those short cuts that you think won't matter this time. I spend a LOT of time prepping tube ends before flaring which has made my scrap go WAY down. I know HOW to do it, I just need to slow down and do it the right way EVERY TIME. The down side to this is I take a lot of breaks to grab a beer, stare at what I'm doing and think through what I want to do next. Wait, that's why I spend so much time in the garage anyhow.........
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  8. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,544

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I'm a bit of a tool junkie :D so I bought a Mastercool kit.
    It's really nice having good tools. :cool:
     
    F-ONE and pat59 like this.
  9. I've been making brake lines since HS and made lots of mistakes. Practice on old lines until you have it down. I also like to eliminate the flaring by using pre-made lines. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Or I buy a real long line and make 2 out of it, cuts the flaring by 1/2.

    I've also bent the lines first, leave a leg longer to help the bending, cut it off later and flare it.
     
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  10. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,629

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    I ain't afraid of no flares.....
    [​IMG]
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  11. ring gap
    Joined: Dec 29, 2017
    Posts: 44

    ring gap
    Member

    I always make the line a little bit longer..so I can redo it again if it leaks...only had to do a couple times..I have junk tools...:(
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  12. stpaulsdealmaker
    Joined: Sep 29, 2009
    Posts: 156

    stpaulsdealmaker
    Member

    I agree sometimes my work takes a few more times or a little longer, BUT DONT IT FEEL GOOD WHEN YOU GET IT RIGHT !1 , make sure to get the Brakes right and the steering right the rest will take care of itself , have fun !
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  13. czuch
    Joined: Sep 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,671

    czuch
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from vail az

    I have a KD that I bought in the 80's. It works well.
    I make a few before I go for the gold. I love having the tools I need.
    Sometimes, I'm working at the higher end of mediocre.
     
  14. wicarnut
    Joined: Oct 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,084

    wicarnut
    Member

    Think you are being too hard on yourself, ALL of us that work on cars have learned from experience, it cannot be bought, you have to earn it. I do agree that proper tools is key to success, I have made brake line flares with a good tool and attempts with a cheap tool that went into trash can. On any type of project, invest into good tools, they will last a you a lifetime and limit the amount of #%!^**!!*^** that comes with car repairs.
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  15. 41woodie
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 998

    41woodie
    Member

    Story of my life
     
  16. drtrcrV-8
    Joined: Jan 6, 2013
    Posts: 850

    drtrcrV-8
    Member

    While I am Fully aware that my work will NEVER be in the running for a "Riddler Award", I make damn sure that it won't earn me a "Headstone Award" either!!
     
  17. JOECOOL
    Joined: Jan 13, 2004
    Posts: 2,636

    JOECOOL
    Member

    I have no problem getting a nice double flare, NOW if I could just remember to put the fitting on first. Seriously ,I watched them bulldoze an old building one day . In that building was a couple of miles of aluminum wire. I took a bunch home ,it bends easily and I use it for making patterns all the time.And it was free!!!
     
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  18. geoford41
    Joined: Jul 26, 2011
    Posts: 434

    geoford41
    Member
    from Delaware

    I have made all the brake lines on my cars using a modified Imperial flare tool (cone is 37 degrees vs S.A.E. 45 degree) with I use 1/4" O.D. Stainless steel tubing, typically .035" wall then use AN SS nuts, and SS flare sleeves that act as a "double" flare like you do when you double flare steel lines. Like Vandenplas states, prepare the tube end properly, removing burrs etc and you can minimize cracks/leaks if you take your time. Make sure to blow out the lines to eliminate bits of metal into your brake system.
    I do use "non-traditional" AN bulkhead fittings and I do work for a manufacturer of P.T.F.E. lined SS hoses that I crimp all my own hoses, Brakes, fuel, heater, etc., Also make sure to use clips that secure the lines to the frame so the lines don't vibrate and cause stress cracks and wear/pinch points.
    I had to re-do all the plumbing (+ lots of other crap)on my avatar because PO was fond of "sub-par" work!
     
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  19. czuch
    Joined: Sep 23, 2008
    Posts: 2,671

    czuch
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from vail az

    Properly anchored is a key phrase.
    When I was young and dumb(er) I fabbed up a fuel line, back to front and actually held it in place with twine.
    It rubbed and I had gas running out close enough to the exhaust to get us to the other side of the street till it cooled off, and the puddle evaporated. Then a pierce of rubber fuel line and some hose clamps to get back home.
    My neighbor showed me how to fix it right.
    Back then the neighbor could give the "Moron slap"
    I learned a lot from him.
     
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  20. COCONUTS
    Joined: May 5, 2015
    Posts: 324

    COCONUTS

    Some of my best flare jobs are completed without placing the flare nut on the tube.
     
    X38, F-ONE, czuch and 4 others like this.
  21. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,629

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    Getting a bitchin' flare without the nut is ironic. Scrapping a masterpiece of tube bending because of a bad flare is a bitch.
     
    F-ONE, edwardlloyd, deucemac and 2 others like this.
  22. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 5,934

    flynbrian48
    Member

    It's not just brake lines. I was looking at a stunning black '32 roadster upstairs at Cobo last weekend, and thought, "I have more work to do.", then, I caught myself. Somebody will always have a car with nicer paint, better upholstery, more chrome, more engine, whatever. I'm learning to be happy with what I have, satisfied with what I can do, and my goal now is to simply do the best I can, within a reasonable time, and within my limited budget.
     
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  23. Oh it's getting more involved.
    We had to fire up the old crap eraser and is doing its job.
     
    F-ONE and pat59 like this.
  24. I have done that! Both things... but not lately. If I have a real bitchy bend to make, I'll do that with a pre-made piece if possible, then I'm only out $4 - $7 at the most.
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  25. When I got out of High School I knew everything, subsequently I didn't go to the University. Now I wish I knew then what I still don't know!
     
    F-ONE likes this.
  26. tommyd
    Joined: Dec 10, 2010
    Posts: 10,571

    tommyd
    Member
    from South Indy

    Hey , who hasn't had a bad day flaring brake lines ? ha! Brake_Coupon-2-550x277.jpg
     
    loudbang, F-ONE, czuch and 1 other person like this.
  27. edwardlloyd
    Joined: Aug 2, 2003
    Posts: 1,993

    edwardlloyd
    Member
    from Germany

    I splashed out about $150 on the Eastwood machine (in was on a Snowed out sale) and get perfect flares each time now. A tool like that can be a shared purchase between a few friends too. After spending 5 - 15 minutes bending up the perfect brake line, you don't want to ruin it with a bad flare right at the end.

    Sent from my SM-G935F using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  28. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,629

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    It really doesn't matter how long you've been doing it, you're going to have scrap. This line took 2 attempts and took 2 days to complete. Looks simple doesn't it?
    [​IMG]
     
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  29. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,450

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Learn to make the line an inch or 2 over length, then you can cut off the bad flare and do it over. Adjust the bends to make up the difference, you can work with a line that is an inch or 2 too long, but its pretty hard to stretch em.
     
    F-ONE and Just Gary like this.
  30. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,629

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    I leave an end long, but seldom bend intentional slop in a line. There's always some tweak in every line, but normally it's all or nothing.
     
    F-ONE likes this.

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