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Technical Realizing your work is...substandard

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by F-ONE, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. RICK R 44
    Joined: Dec 13, 2009
    Posts: 425

    RICK R 44
    Member

    Not sure what type of line you are using. The copper/nickel alloy is by far the easiest to work with.
     
  2. If it's ugly but 100% functional = a win.
    If it is not trustworthy and holding up the whole project, take the lines to a shop and have them do it.
    Probably not that much $ to have a guy do it who does it all day, every day for a living.
    Sometimes you have to pick/choose your battles.
     
  3. I’m my worst critique......but I wouldn’t have it any other way. You can’t put a price on gaining knowledge, I just wish I had another lifetime to learn more. For me not really knowing many people in person I have to teach myself (trial and error) and have to buy the equipment to learn on when funds permit. I’ve used my old flair tool for years and bought the mastercool hydraulic one because I do brake lines fairly frequent, the time to setup and flair is greatly reduced...plus I get perfect flairs every time (even with the coated lines).

    The hardest part for me was coming on here, looking at post by pros and holding my own work to that standard. My work maybe solid/safe but my welds don’t look perfect or my panel needs filler after work or I don’t get work done as quickly..........all that. I have to put it in perspective, I’m always learning, always getting better, as long as it’s built in safe manner remember you can always redo it with gained knowledge and skill later.

    That’s why this place is so great, the wealth of knowledge is staggering and everyone is willing to help at the drop of a hat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  4. trollst
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 1,235

    trollst
    Member

    Or sometimes....you just need to have an old guy show you a trick you didn't know, I rarely screw up a flare, and I only make my own lines, now if I could get somebody to show me how to lay them out for perfect fit.......
     
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  5. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,270

    anthony myrick
    Member
    from al

    I have had bad luck with the green tubing from the chain stores
    the galvanized stuff from my local store seems easier to bend and flare
    the best of us sacrifice a piece or two doing brake lines
     
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  6. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,445

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    I was quoted 3-450 to have a local shop do it....that's running the lines.
    After the 65 I have three more vehicles to do a Fairlane, the F1 and a off topic 47 Willys CJ. It's to my advantage to get a good tool.
    I like everyone here can see that that is a great car.

    One day I would like to build a 27 T on an A or maybe a Modified Three Springer. I hope whatever I do looks as good as what you have done.

    I study and build Kentucky Rifles...flintlocks. Some of the neatest things I have seen are period repairs on originals. Some are blacksmith done, others are near works of art like the rifles themselves. All are good solid repairs.

    Poor repairs wether done last week or 200 years ago are just that...poor repairs.

    As long as it's good...it's good.

    I know this is baby stuff....running brake lines:rolleyes: but a wise man once told me, do the basics....get that right and the skill and speed will come. You must have a good solid foundation first.
    There will always be better cars. They inspire me. My goal is to build the best that I can. A big part of that is realizing when I have not done my best. In that case, I re do it until it is right.
    I have received a lot of help on here. I want to thank everyone for thier participation.
     
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  7. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,445

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    Something I have been doing and it seems to work....
    I lay out with a flexible wire. I use that wire....mainly to get the length. I have found doing this with Kunifer or NiCop I can thread and run the lines while the vehicle is together. Some of these pre-bent kits, the vehicle must be blown apart a little. For instance I can't see how you could run these lines pre bent without removing the steering gear. With NiCop I can thread these lines through as I go if I have the length right. Bending by hand makes the lines have more of a gentle curve than the factory sharp edges. I find the curves to be more pleasing.
     
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  8. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,495

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    You should know the only man that never made a mistake never made nothing. We all had to learn and we all made a lot of shit doing it. I look at some old work I did years ago and cringe but every once in a while do something that makes me feel good.
     
  9. zzford
    Joined: May 5, 2005
    Posts: 1,790

    zzford
    Member

    I used to do that when I was building my coupe. I had to stop, though. I was getting too much spit on my windshield.
     
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  10. morac41
    Joined: Jul 23, 2011
    Posts: 432

    morac41
    Member

    Your are being to hard on yourself......
     
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  11. ...I've built dozens of cars/trucks from the frame up, never flaired one fuel or brake line, just buy the pre-made lines at NAPA, no problems, very tidy looking jobs as I've been told,...why fight it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
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  12. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 3,466

    indyjps
    Member

    F-ONE, you care enough to do it right, even if it takes a few tries. I was jokin with you earlier about it taking half as long the second time but its true. Some of the uncertainty is gone, now you can tear thru it.

    We all do the best build we can, there are some amazing craftsmen on here, pros in their field, many builds under their belt. It doesnt come the first time or easy.

    Theres some things in my current build Ive second guessed, then I remind myself im going to drive it, not build a show car.
    Clean safe install, and your work will be respected anywhere you go.

    Let us know what flaring tool you go with. I have 2 and dont like either.
     
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  13. deuceman32
    Joined: Oct 23, 2007
    Posts: 263

    deuceman32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I used to dislike flaring until I finally ponied up for a Mastercool set. Beautiful flares quite quickly, which is helpful when you have to cut off the perfect flare that you just made in order to install a flare nut...........
     
  14. I overcome my substandard abilities by doing everything over 3 - 4 times.

    Works for me...
     
  15. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 965

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

    Even a mediocre flaring tool will do the job most of the time. A trick I learned was not to tighten the second step of the flare too tight, let the flare nut finish it in the fitting.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  16. jvo
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 138

    jvo
    Member

    I went through this same scenario quite a few years back. I owned a couple flaring tools, that were decent back in the day, and borrowed a decent one from a friend also. Most of the time, I could get a good flare, but it was still very frustrating to make and remake them until they were all perfect.
    So, I googled, "best flaring tool" and Mastercool kept coming up time and again. I ponied up the 300 bucks for one and it was money well spent. Perfect flare first time, every time. AND, it makes me smile every time I use a top quality tool.
     
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  17. Andy
    Joined: Nov 17, 2002
    Posts: 4,260

    Andy
    Member

    I was having hell making double flares. I finally realized the only critical component was the little pill thing that you use to start the flare. Get a quality one of those and you will be good to go.
     
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  18. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 23,646

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The difference between ugly home made looking and pro show look is usually patience and a few more minutes to plan it out and do it right.

    I've found that no matter what flair tool you have be it HF or the big Eastwood unit or some other top line unit you need a good quality tube cutter with a real sharp cutting wheel so you don't crush the tube when you cut it.
    You also need a chamfer tool to dress up the ends of the tube like the one Eastwood sells that seems to be out of stock now. https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-tubing-deburring-tool.html trying to fair tubes with rough edges never works. Also cutting the tube off with a cut disk hardens the end of the tube and they won't flair correctly.
     
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  19. Hamtown Al
    Joined: Jan 17, 2007
    Posts: 1,869

    Hamtown Al
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Virginia HAMB(ers)

    Simple is good. Why not go down to your auto parts store and buy an array of the different lengths of brake line and a bunch of connectors and go that route. I've built a number of cars and added brakes to more than one and I'm yet to flare a line end in almost 40 years. Somehow I climbed every mountain. I'm sure many could have done some, if not all, of the jobs a little neater and more trick looking than mine. None of mine ever failed from a hand done flare. Think about it. A few extra connectors is dang cheap for the piece of mind about the getting each hand made flare just right and whether or not it will hold.
    Just return the ones you don't need. You'll make a few trips but you'll get better at coming up with the right combo as you do more.
    Simple is good and you don't have to buy any new tools from Snap-On or Harbor Freight... that ought to pay for a few of those extra connectors.;)
    Use bigger lines for gas lines in the same manner. Always worked for me.
    Just sayin'
    Cheap and simple Al
     
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  20. A few years ago I got a screaming deal on about 50 feet of stainless 3/16ths line. I have a snap-on flaring tool and it works ok and I have a few diffferent style benders but I ain't flaring no steenking brake lines for my 34....a few trips to NAPA down the street for pre-made Bundy-flex lines and some connectors will do me just fine, thank you.
    The hard-to-work-with stainless will be going to the next swap meet.
     
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  21. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 5,038

    Rickybop
    Member
    from Michigan

    They say we learn from our mistakes.
    I'm a genius now...lol.
     
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  22. The Shift Wizard
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 1,040

    The Shift Wizard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sadly there are entirely too many who don't "realize their work is substandard" and they probably never will.
    The guy I bought my project from ought to be horse whipped into some kind of realization, though.
     
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  23. So is this thread about brake line flares and shitty tools or is it about the lightbulb moment when the realization appears?
     
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  24. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 10,170

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Shitty work is traditional!
     
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  25. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,052

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Gene Winfield always says, "Every day is a school day". It's a great saying, and applies well beyond the automotive sphere.

    To say that something is substandard, there must first be a standard to which it's judged by. Depending on who you ask, that can very wildly. I'd say at bare minimum, the standard would have to be strong, long-lasting, safe, function reliably... once you have that, then you can start making it look good.
     
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  26. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 863

    gene-koning
    Member

    I do the best I can do, but there is always someone that can do a neater or better job then I will ever be capable of doing. Some things are simply beyond our grasp or capabilities, for those things, we find other options.

    I've replaced a lot of brake lines over the years, and have very rarely flared the brake line ends. There are other things I can do on my projects that are more worthy of spending my time on. I build drivers, not show cars. As much as I enjoy the build, I want to move it towards the drive as soon as I can, I enjoy the drive as much, and maybe a little more then the build.

    Buy tools based on how much you are going to use them. A $300 tubing flare kit that sits in the bottom drawer of the tool box for years between use is a pretty dumb investment in my book. Gene
     
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  27. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 8,684

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think its about the general solitary moments in a home based hobbyist environment combining learning and experiencing a failure in process then stopping due to the realization that something isn't right...which happens and sometimes isn't noticed due to non awareness or knowing and not giving a hoot. In this case its you and you only. You are the one who learns, executes, judges all facets of the process. It involves ethical decisions just as it would in a professional environment.

    This is not just a thread out of place when sewing upholstery, its a brake line...life and death stuff. Its good to talk about it. It may not be but probably is largely an inferior tool. This complicates the process because now your a tool inspector on top of a learning auto enthusiast.

    I am entirely capable of error. Just like everyone. What you do when you error is an ethical decision. F1 has hit some curve balls and is reaching out...and throwing it all on the table. No harm in that. Educate, execute, inspect and move on...All good pat yourself on the back continue. Something wrong reach out and talk about it evaluate repair if needed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018
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  28. DAHEMIKOTA
    Joined: Aug 12, 2006
    Posts: 103

    DAHEMIKOTA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Tenn

    Be willing to bet you ain't the first one to forget the nut. My trick is putting the nut on backwards.
     
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  29. deucemac
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 827

    deucemac
    Member

    I was standing and talking to Rod Covell at Oakland a few years ago. He had a small tv set up at the side of his booth continually playing one of his how to tapes, It showed how to make a sprint car or midget noes, from bucks to patterns and finally welding the 4 sections together. a young man stood there watching the video as Rod and I talked. All of a sudden he shouts out "You welded those pieces with a gas rig!" Rod replied that, yes he did because he liked using gas. The young man shot back, " when I try to weld Aluminum, all I get are puddles and holes!" Rod looked at him and replied, "That's all I got when I started out too." Recognize your mistakes in two ways. First is that you screwed up ( as Rod, me, and just about anyone has done on many different items. Second, and just as important, remember what you did and realize that you just conquered one more hurtle on the way to learning to do it right every time and then help someone else move forward too. But, at 70 and having played with hot rods, race cars, grey 4 door sedans (non-hot rods), Flight test on commercial and military aircraft ( trust me when I say that mistakes on an airplane are much less tolerated than on a car), I can still find new and exciting ways to screw up. like fabricating a very complicated brake, fuel, or cooling line and standing back to admire me art work only to notice that I left one of the flare nuts off or worse, installed the nut backwards and there is no "fudge" room because where I screwed up on the nut has a bend too close behind the flare to re-flare with a nut installed properly. Thus colorful language and a repeat performance with a fresh line AND correctly installed flare nuts. work only as fast as you can do quality and no more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  30. Terrible80
    Joined: Oct 1, 2010
    Posts: 532

    Terrible80
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't know, maybe some savant was born knowing how to do everything. Not me! The fact that the OP can judge his own work means he knows good from bad. I rarely do anything that I don't learn how to do it a little better next time. Keep at it. Remember, unsafe is bad. But, if you're not building a concourse restoration, sometimes good enough is good enough.

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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