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real cost of a great paint job

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by redhumphries, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,755

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    Actually, the first Earl Schieb job I had done in 1958 was $19.95! We did a lot of our own prep, removed trim and masked stuff that was usually over looked. If you asked nice, you could be the last job and they would keep it in the oven(turned off) overnight. If you look at some of the car show photos of that era, note the number of flame jops and scallops that went a long way to making a $19.95 paint job presentable. Too, Standard Brands automotive enamel was dirt cheap back in the day.
     
  2. 55delray
    Joined: Dec 9, 2010
    Posts: 145

    55delray
    Member
    from Florida

    So of the materials costs $3200, what did the owner pay out the door? I can see a disassembled painted, buffed and reassembled being $7-$10k, versus standard paint job with car just taped being $5000. I would think the main difference is upon close inspection and details at body panel junctions and trim.
     
  3. BAD PENNY
    Joined: Aug 22, 2011
    Posts: 1,247

    BAD PENNY
    Member
    from mass

    YUP, it was. It's a ton of money (20K) so yeah, patina'd paint it'll stay. If I ever do paint it I prolly won't want to drive it.:mad:
     
  4. redhumphries
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 423

    redhumphries
    Member

    Sorry I haven't been back on line I was out of town at an over the top car show. One of you said you didn't like buffing in the paint booth, well believe it or not we do all the buffing, priming, block sanding and priming in the booth. Our shop is only 3200 sq ft. and if we did the dirty work outside everything would get sucked into the booth when the fan is on. It makes us clean the booth twice as hard before any paint work is done. Remember if I use cheap products and the work comes back I have to buy the stuff the second time and I cant do that plus it will ruin the shops rep. All jobs we work on are not high dollar and take a lot of time I painted a 32 roadster body black single stage buffed and polished and his bill only came to 1350.00 He had it nice before I started so I only had to block it once and then paint. I cant give a customer a guaranteed price on a paint job because I cant see through old paint and tell him what Im going to have to do, also I cant guess how many bolts will strip or break off but I will have to fix them. Ive been in this business long enough to know that most cheap paint jobs or metal work jobs don't get finished because the one doing the work cant afford to do it for free and the owner doesn't understand the time envolved doing it right. Insurance work and doing this at home in your backyard is a whole different story than trying to make a living and support yourself with this being your only income. I was just trying to give some of you an idea of why it cost so much to have a car painted the right way. Oh yes we only paint 1 or 2 cars a year we spend most of our time doing metal repair, wiring, a/c install chassis build and building peoples dreams sometimes it is easy sometimes its not. Have a good day RED
     
  5. redhumphries
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 423

    redhumphries
    Member

    Oh yeah just so you wont think I'm this grumpy old guy, if your in the area and want some first hand tech help on your project you are welcome to come by the shop on a sat morning and I will talk you through whatever problem you are having with your project, whether it is wiring, painting, prep, buffing or even if you are having a problem welding I can give you a free quick class so you can do this stuff yourself. Just call me first 704-509-6397
     
  6. Jeff J
    Joined: Mar 15, 2007
    Posts: 958

    Jeff J
    Member

    Like Red, been in the business in doing cars for 30 years and was lucky that I sold my Hot Rod shop & retail store in 2006 . People cry when they hear the price of a paint job. And I agree materials are crazy priced but we are stuck with them! Most people think we are ripping them off doing a car ! So my question is what do you make in your profession an hour ? Then triple that at least for our overhead to run a business ! Takes a least 300 hrs plus to do a car the right way ! Guess we are suppose to work for free and not get paid !!! Just my 2 cents !!! Now I got my hobby back after 30 years !!! Keep up the good work RED !!!! Jeff
     

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  7. Moon Rocket
    Joined: Dec 26, 2012
    Posts: 540

    Moon Rocket
    BANNED
    from GA

    Honestly, what kind of mark-up above their cost do paint shops put on materials?
     
  8. Jeff J
    Joined: Mar 15, 2007
    Posts: 958

    Jeff J
    Member

    We ran a 10 % on materials for handling cost and tieing up my working capital ! Which is cheap !
     
  9. heyhey HEY! I've never worked that cheap in my life! :mad:....oh wait, you guys are talkin' about that 'other' guy....he spells his name Sch-E-I-b. He's dead and gone :(...but his business model lives on(Maaco, Peach, Econo, etc)--and it never included "great" paint jobs.
    I've never met Redhumphries, but I know I like him--he knows what he's talking about :cool: Preach on, Pastor Red! :D
     
  10. Try this on for size ...
    First this particular formula is based on parts per thousand.
    So in your mind divide a 32 once quart into 1000 equal parts.

    1000
    --------
    13 parts toner A
    23 parts toner b
    964 parts mixing base
    --------
    1000

    The toners cost about $150.00 a pint but for this calculation lets say its $300.00 a quart.
    The base is $50.00 a quart .
    These are off the shelf prices so the mark-up is already in there.

    Some quick math will tell you the mixing base is $0.05 per part at 1000 parts.
    Some more quick math will tell you the toner is $0.30 per part at 1000 parts.

    A little calculator work-
    964 x .05 = $ 48.20
    (13+23) x .30 = $ 10.80
    ================
    Total ------------$ 59.00 per quart
    Now add in the can and sticks and strainers if the shop throws them in and maybe the paint shop has (50.00) into it & going out the door ( don't forget the mark up is already in there)

    Ordering a quart of this color mixed & over the counter did cost me $289.00. that's around $1200.00 a gallon.

    Stocking the mixing room isn't cheap and someone needs to pay for it. Just to be able to mix this one color the paint shop does have around $600.00 invested in toners.

    If Anyone were so inclined and had the formula they could buy the toners and mix their own paint. These two toners would cost you 600.00 and you would have enough toner to tint about 44 gallons. So a 5,000 investment (600 toner and 4400 base) results in $52,800.00 worth of jobber paint sales.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  11. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,580

    ems customer service
    Member

    if they want a driver paint job, i use macco paint and wait for the $299 spring sale, not a bad paint job otherwise i pay about 8k for a good paint job
     
  12. Boones
    Joined: Mar 4, 2001
    Posts: 9,691

    Boones
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Kent, Wa
    1. Northwest HAMBers

    I am not sure how many people realize the difference between a drive quality (no disassembly), a nice 'taken apart' quality job and a top show quality paint job. the amount of hours going into it escalates real quick.
     
  13. Moon Rocket
    Joined: Dec 26, 2012
    Posts: 540

    Moon Rocket
    BANNED
    from GA

    If this is anywhere near true to hell with painting cars, I would be opening me a paint store and selling it 25% less than anyone else and still making a butt load! :eek:




     
  14. lcfman
    Joined: Sep 1, 2009
    Posts: 280

    lcfman
    Member
    from tn

    This is off subject a little but how long will automotive paint last in an unopened can. I have some Sherwin-Williams base coat white and clear coat I have had for about 10
    years. Is it still good? I guess I could do some test panels and find out.
     
  15. This is honest to goodness truth !!!
    Also the truth is they will probably never sell 44 gallons of that color and neither will you.
    But it costs a fortune to stock a mixing room.
    There's 230,000 + ( and growing every day) different colors formulas.

    That was a Pretty Popular Group brand color, and the store only sells that brand of paint. Maybe the manufacture stocks the room at their expense and then takes a cut on the paint that goes out the door. The manufacture needs to pay for themselves somehow & The formulation scientists ain't cheap.

    My friend mixes his own paint and has at least a couple hundred different toners alone. With that he claims to be able to match beyond detection 50% of what he comes across. 80% with a blend. on top of the toners he has and then a boat load of micas, pearls, & metallics. He specializes in small repairs and touch ups, just flat out refuses to paint a whole car anymore.
     
  16. Rattle Trap
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 358

    Rattle Trap
    Member

    Im glad I only require driver quality paint jobs for my stuff. I have painted a few Harleys though myself and they turned out great. Cost me a few hundred in paint.
     
  17. Caddy-O
    Joined: Aug 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,645

    Caddy-O
    Member


    Word !!!
     
  18. MISCONSTUDE
    Joined: Oct 2, 2011
    Posts: 135

    MISCONSTUDE
    Member

    Sent the 55' to the paint booth today after FOUR months of working on the body every spare moment. 2 gallons of bondo (probably had a gallon of it get hard before I could use it, I always mix too much) and who knows how many sheets of sand paper and rattle can primer later, we are gonna see how my bodywork skills are because it is getting shot black. Not a ton of money tied up in this paint job, but around 250-300 hrs. on bodywork. At 20 bucks per that would be 5-6000 dollars! I'm paying a grand to have it shot bc/cc. The only way this was ever gonna get done was to do the body work myself. I'll post some pics when its done. Paint is gonna be great, just dont know about my body work.
    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     

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    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  19. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,222

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    1st rate work isn't for everyone. Many don't even realize the care and feeding needed to simply preserve that investment. In any major gathering of fine cars, perhaps 10% of the attendees can tell the difference in the steps needed to get that reflective image just right. I've always been and wanted my work to appeal to that 10% regardless of the venue. I still do things that I figured out in my early 20s because even with the new technology there's no substitute for the labor and (very simple) tools required. The labor means hours, time and mat'l, it all adds up super fast. The finish and the color is the FIRST THING YOU NOTICE when you walk up on a car the for the 1st time. All this talk lately of $100 Rustoleum finishes? Well, there was this awesome looking girl, from behind, slightly turned, the shape, the curves, hair color, oh dammit I gotta get a little closer. And when you do her face looks like 20 acres of plowed corn field and she's missing a tooth or 2, talks like a Mopar that won't start, well you get the idea. That's what I think of when I consider these miracle $100 paint jobs. I'd rather have and do the kind of work where when she turns around she's Charlize Theron.
     
  20. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    VoodooTwin
    Member
    from Noo Yawk

    You're right, top dollar paint jobs aren't for everyone. $100 rustoleum paint jobs aren't for everyone either. But each have their place in this hobby and we can respect each other's efforts just the same.
     
  21. Moon Rocket
    Joined: Dec 26, 2012
    Posts: 540

    Moon Rocket
    BANNED
    from GA

    I would go out on a limb and say that there have been a thousand $100.00 paint jobs for every one top shelf paint job applied to "traditional" hot rods over the decades.

    I respect a 20K> paint job, but I don't consider them "traditional". I understand there has always been those paint jobs at the top end of the spectrum, I also realize they were and still are a exception rather than the rule. I might say the only thing "traditional" about a 20K> paint job is that only an exceptional select few has ever had them.

    Speaking of spectrum, I'm sure everyone knows there is only seven "traditional" colors in the color spectrum, right.

    My feeling is perhaps 20K> dollar paint jobs might be better received by the gold chain street rod and concours crowd. :rolleyes:
     
  22. arkiehotrods
    Joined: Mar 9, 2006
    Posts: 6,454

    arkiehotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A good friend of mine owns a body shop. He built a brand new shop with state-of-the-art paint booth, etc, about 5 years ago. One large factor in his overhead is EPA and state environmental regulations. The guy squirting a paint job in his home garage once every five or six years doesn't have to deal with it like a production shop does.

    I have painted half a dozen cars in the last 40 years. I do it because I enjoy it. But even with free labor, the materials are incredibly expensive. The guys who do it for a living earn every dollar, in my opinion.
     
  23. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,755

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    One has to put things into perspective to understand that there were very expensive paint jobs in the late 50's and early 60's. The Jackman Brother's 1932 cabriolet had an outstanding paint job in 1958. I don't have a clue as to how much it cost when it was done. That car, by the way, was recognized as one of the 75 top deuces a couple of years ago at the GNRS.

    Whether it was a $19.95 Earl Scheib paint job or a high dollar Martinez paint job, we were trying to put a finished car on the street during that time period. Cost is all relative and regulations plus EPA rules have inflated the prices far beyond the actual rate of inflation for paint jobs.

    DuPont DP90 on the Zipper in my avatar was $90 a quart 15 years ago. I think that I paid around $2400 for a complete paint job, including prep.
     
  24. coolbreeze1340
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,340

    coolbreeze1340
    Member
    from Indiana


    Most body shops make the big money on small repairs. I have a good friend that has a decent shop and all he will take in anymore is repair/ insurance jobs. He does a lot of work for a new car dealer because they closed their own body shop down.
    You can do a $1500 small repair job in a day with $150 in supplies or you can do a $10,000 paint job using $2500 in materials in 3 weeks.
     
  25. Moon Rocket
    Joined: Dec 26, 2012
    Posts: 540

    Moon Rocket
    BANNED
    from GA

    "DuPont DP90 on the Zipper in my avatar was $90 a quart 15 years ago."



    The last I bought was about $50.00 for a quart and catalyst. That was a few weeks ago.
     
  26. I'm inching closer to the paint and engine shop stages of my project. It is making my head hurt trying to figure out how to pay for both.:confused:
    That's even with me doing much of the work myself.
     
  27. Keep
    Joined: May 10, 2008
    Posts: 662

    Keep
    Member

    I always thought some folks were nuts when they said a good paint job can cost over $10,000 and the sky's the limit for a great paint job.

    Then I decided I would do my own, holy shit, I now completely understand why its costs so much, and I have a new appreciation for some of the paint jobs I see.

    Just for my little T - $1500 in materials, and 150+ hours. For a T! and I am still finding spots I need to polish a bit more.
     
  28. Special Ed
    Joined: Nov 1, 2007
    Posts: 6,882

    Special Ed
    Member

    I could not disagree more with this comment ... :cool:
     
  29. Moon Rocket
    Joined: Dec 26, 2012
    Posts: 540

    Moon Rocket
    BANNED
    from GA


    Maybe we could start a poll asking it folks paid closer to $100.00 or $20,000.00 for their paintjobs? :D

    You give me a dollar for each one $10,050 and under and I'll give you one for each one over $10,050.00.
     
  30. Jagman
    Joined: Mar 25, 2010
    Posts: 345

    Jagman
    Member

    I don't doubt that it takes a LOT of hours to get a car to have that absolute flat mirror shine, and that that's what everyone is striving for, but here.....on this forum.....I thought it's about how guys built them themselves, in their own garage, and did their own work, and I seriously doubt more than a very very few used $1000 a gallon paint on their rods.

    On my old Jag, I did all the metal work and all of the filler/smoothing etc, but when it came to paint, I let the paint shop prime it, block it and paint it, then I hired the detail manager at our dealership to finish sand and buff it. I got what I paid for and actually I'm OK with it. It is not a show finish, and some guys might say it doesn't look that good, but it looks great in the pics I've posted, and 20 years on it's still holding, no cracks or chips other than road chips, so I can't be unhappy with it.

    I paid the body shop $1500 to paint it (black) and the detail guy $100 and a case of beer.

    But......

    That was in 1994.

    If I were to paint a car now, well.......I doubt I could afford it based on what I'm reading here. No wonder so many guys wash it off, and clear coat over the rust and call it good.

    rant/on

    BTW, and just my opinion, but I think it looks like shit to paint over rust and call it "patina", and I have no idea how people can think that looks good, especially when they spend umpteen gazillion $$$ on everything underneath the body, new interior and so on, then leave the body looking like crap and just clear over it. Makes no sense to me. And it's damn sure not "traditional".

    end/rant
     

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