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Re-Stamping VIN Numbers...or beating dead horses...you decide!?!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by crazycasey, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. PinHead
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 243

    PinHead
    Member

    I think the answer you're looking for can be found in Swifter's thread regarding VINs lining up with your insurance paperwork. From what I've read, your numbers can be transferred over, but I highly doubt you can do it yourself. I think you need to call the DMV and tell them that you have a car that needs the frame replaced, and that you need the numbers transferred to the new frame. They'll send a guy over who will either supervise you cutting the numbers off your old frame and attatching them to the new one, or else they'll give you a new tag to put on your new frame, but then I believe the old frame (or at least the numbers on it) have to be destroyed. Once this is done, they'll sign off on it.

    Bottom line is that you can't have two frames with the same number on them, especially if you do it yourself without someone from the state signing off on it. That's what I got from Swifter's explanation, anyways.
     
  2. trailer-Ed
    Joined: May 15, 2002
    Posts: 1,793

    trailer-Ed
    Member
    from JC, MO

    why ask? You are just ratting you self out. Don'y tell anyone, and stamp it with your good VIN who is the wiser? The government don't know if it is an original frame or not, and couldn't tell you if it is a 26 or a 46. By asking you are just opening a can of worms.
     
  3. I respectfully disagree. The can of worms is opened when you do something knowingly illegal...even if it's not illegal, if you perceive it to be and do it anyway, that's sorta self-incriminating.
     
  4. Crap Like this? So I steal your ride, stamp in another set of VIN numbers from another frame into your car and register it. No one says anything about the obviously stamped numbers in a new frame cuz that would be a "waste of time" and since I have paperwork and numbers that match I have "Proven" that "It was mine beyond any doubt whatsoever". How would you feel about this then? I think there are some pretty good reasons for these laws on titling and VIN numbers.
    I for one would be glad that some cop gave the thief shit, because the only "Money Making Racket" is the thieves.
     
  5. Nonsense. There are plenty of CHP here that have been trained in this because of all the fraud, and know a Model A from a 32
     
  6. You cannot do this in California, where the OP lives. The only legal way at this point in time is a Blue Tag.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
  7. No one cuts out that section with the serial number and welds it into the new frame, I gather?

    "I don't know, I bought it that way" ...
     
  8. trailer-Ed
    Joined: May 15, 2002
    Posts: 1,793

    trailer-Ed
    Member
    from JC, MO

    Well you guys can do what you will, but what the " Man " does not know will not hurt him! Tell me, how will the "law" know if you stamped it or the factory!!! You guys need to get off you soap boxes, jeeze!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. dv8
    Joined: Apr 15, 2001
    Posts: 1,097

    dv8
    Member


    Ding! Ding! Ding! Winner!!! :)
     
  10. Why is it a "soap Box" when he asked what was Legal and we try and tell him? As for knowing the difference when you go and stamp your own, the CHP knows what the stamps looked like as the style is not common, especially the star. It might be easy to get away with elsewhere but it has become increasingly difficult here.
     
  11. RF
    Joined: Mar 13, 2001
    Posts: 1,897

    RF
    Member

    The majority of my comments weren't directed toward you as much as they were to those lesser-insightful. As for the legality of what you're talking about (part of what you brought up is illlegal, like it or not), the decision factor doesn't apply--the laws in which you're referring to have already decided for you. CA's SB-100 does not apply in this situation. If you do indeed have valid paperwork (title), you can go about getting a re-issued VIN through the CHP. It's not special construction, your car remains whatever year the title says it is unless the CHP can prove otherwise. There are also ways to address frame replacement, but that starts with the DMV, and you need more than just a title to go off (section of frame or orig engine). However, if you're starting with a bare body, building your own frame, using newer engine, etc., then none of the above applies--that's when the SB-100 starts entering the picture.
     
  12. AstroZombie
    Joined: Jul 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,788

    AstroZombie
    Member


    I have a CA assigned VIN on my Model A. It's riveted to the firewall, but the title clearly states 1930 Ford. (And the car is obviously steel) I'm not sure what kind of mess happened for that tag to be affixed to the body, but it registered and transferred over just find when I bought it.

    OP, talk to AAA DMV services and see what they say.
     
  13. RF
    Joined: Mar 13, 2001
    Posts: 1,897

    RF
    Member

    I don't know about your "Man", but mine has a computer...

    And blue tags are not Special Construction (SPV) when used for re-assigning VINs.
     
  14. I have seen cases where they put the blue tag on the firewall (and other places) on CA. It is a replacement VIN or ASSIGNED VIN
     
  15. Roger Walling
    Joined: Sep 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,149

    Roger Walling
    Member

    One problem with false or no VIN is if it is stolen or totaled, you would have a big problem identifing it to the police, and the insurance company will shure as shit check the actual VIN to be sure that is the car that you have insured!
     
  16. Never heard of "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" ? :D
     
  17. True, but if you do a nice enough job on the welds they shouldn't be readily distinguishable after you grind them down and paint the frame.
     
  18. Black Panther
    Joined: Jan 6, 2010
    Posts: 1,817

    Black Panther
    Member
    from SoCal

    I would think that if you have a title, the original A frame that matches that title, you could go to the CHP and they will issue you a "blue tag" which is a vin tag with the model A number you already have. If the State sees a frame as a replacement/service item, then attaching the original serial number to the new frame shouldnt be an issue...but we are talking about the government here.
     
  19. trailer-Ed
    Joined: May 15, 2002
    Posts: 1,793

    trailer-Ed
    Member
    from JC, MO

    All I can say is California MUST be a real bitch. Plus haveing a real set of early ford stamps with a star is a great item to have:) in your tool box.
     
  20. TERPU
    Joined: Jan 2, 2004
    Posts: 2,283

    TERPU
    Member

    Ok, here's a way to do both. Cut out nicely the VIN plate in a big enough square and nicely graft it into the new frame in a similar spot to the original. That way you can always say you modified the frame/car and didn't tamper with the VIN. While you are at it stamp several places on the frame with a number that allows you to identify the car if it ever is stolen and in question. If you re-use several parts of the original car then the spirit is there. No cops gonna bust you for that. All this banter over what's allowed while entertaining isn't really good for anything but screwing up the speed of the HAMB.

    good luck,

    Tim
     
  21. dv8
    Joined: Apr 15, 2001
    Posts: 1,097

    dv8
    Member


    Never heard of "burden of proof"? :)

    You are presumed innocent until proven guilty! So just like when something happens at your job: "it was like that when I got here!"

    Who says that VIN wasn't on there when he bought it? Do the prosecuters have any video or pictures of him stamping that VIN? Can they produce any witnesses? It's his word against theirs, and he says "it was like that when I got it, and it matches the title that is in my name"...case clooooosed! :)

    Now I guess they might could produce a suspicious thread on the HAMB at the trial! :)
     
  22. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN


    Show me numbers that proves that a non-gold chainer car like the one our OP is building are stolen then reacquired because of the crap our good man here is going through, vs how many TICKETS or FEES are charged by CA DMV. You can speculate all you want, present hypotheticals, whatever....I'd like to see some *specific* numbers and examples that support your *preferences* in police behavior. Unless they're recovering a substantial number of cars per year due directly to their money magnet law, it's patently useless. The insurance company has skin in the game to require something like this...but not the police.
     
  23. There have been numerous posts on here by folks who had their cars (and motorcycles) impounded and did not get them back due to "funny" VIN's and their defense was "I bought it that way". It just doesn't fly, seen it happen to many times. If the VIN isn't legit, it doesn't matter who done it
     
  24. The last time I had a Blue Tag issued due to an illegible VIN, there was no charge by the CA DMV or the CHP for inspecting and issuing it, so it kind of kills that conspiracy theory doesn't it.
     
  25. seventhirteen
    Joined: Sep 21, 2009
    Posts: 721

    seventhirteen
    Member
    from dago, ca

    I'd say it very uncommon for a cop to remove the body to inspect a vin on 34 and under cars....which is what we are talking about

    Those sets are great to have but did you know 1 of the stamps is actually different than the factory, hope your vin doesn't need it....

    A blue tag is the correct answer, car will still be titled the same, this also can be done with motorcycles
     
  26. poboyross
    Joined: Apr 29, 2009
    Posts: 2,142

    poboyross
    Member
    from West TN

    Negative, ghostrider.....you still paid for that CHP to waste his time checking your VIN, as did the money paid to the person working at the CA DMV that had to waste time dealing with you. We have roadblocks here that check for piddly crud like that. They know that 90% of folks will be able to get out of it the way you did...but that other 10% rakes in some major dough. Here they do it with the inspection tags.
     
  27. So...I spoke with a friend who owns a Vehicle Registration/VIN Verification service, and her opinion is that the only LEGAL way to put an aftermarket frame under a Model A (at least here in California) is to get a Special Construction title.

    I would love to, however, get a lawyers take on the CVC section I posted earlier, because that sounds to me like you could legally stamp your VIN number anywhere you wanted to on your car, legally, so long as you weren't altering another number to do so.
     
  28. as far as the pulling the body off to see the vin #, remember the original car number was visible because it was stamped in the engine. what would the charge be for stamping your vin, on your new frame, of your car? it's not vin tampering because you can stamp your vin on any part of your car for id so what would the judge charge you with?
     
  29. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,594

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Yep, but here they are going to want to see one of the original manufacturer numbers to verify the ones you stamped are the same, still not going to get you around showing them an original stamped number.
     
  30. Like this comment!!! So how exactly does one go about getting a Blue Tag? Any threads on this that exist here?

    I could probably take my car with it's current frame and title, and show that the numbers are really hard to make out, and argue for a Blue Tag to be issued that way. Then swap frames, and off I go. Can you get a Blue Tag issued for a frame swap specifically?
     

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