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Technical Re ringing an engine

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by wood remover, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. evintho
    Joined: May 28, 2007
    Posts: 2,075


    Just did a re-ring on my 100k 5.0. The worst cylinder measured .005 out. Ridges weren't bad at all. I scraped them down with a razor knife then used a 240g ball hone on the cylinders. Make sure to wash the block real good with soap and water. Real world results remain to be seen.

    before rebuild3.JPG

    ball hone1.JPG

    ball hone3.JPG

    washing block1.JPG
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
  2. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,767


  3. Tickety Boo
    Joined: Feb 2, 2015
    Posts: 1,508

    Tickety Boo
    from Wisconsin

    Now this has got me thinking about the Torque Plate effect on a cylinder

    Could a .005 out of round cylinder become round again under the stress of the Torque Plate or head ?
  4. bill gruendeman
    Joined: Jun 18, 2019
    Posts: 628

    bill gruendeman

    When you re-ring an engine alway use cast iron rings, so I have been told. I way I look at it new oil pump and timing chain it should not blow up so what’s a LITTLE smoke
  5. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,410


    I've pulled a lot of 5.0 HO engines from junkyards with between 160-200k on them.
    Most were still showing the cross-hatch patterns in the bore.

    I don't even bother honing or removing the ridge [if any] in the bores.
    All I did was de-carbon the ring grooves and slap a set of "Protec" rings on them

    Protec rings have a rebate in the top ring profile to provide clearance from any lip in the bore.
    Cranking the engine over to get oil pressure was the break-in process.

    I manage a whole season of club racing on a stock 5.0 shortblock.
    It probably performed better than my high $$$ engine ,due to my lack of mechanical sympathy.

    Sometimes "Cheap and Ruthless" can be more fun!:D
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
  6. fordor41
    Joined: Jul 2, 2008
    Posts: 995


    I can not remember how many ford engines I've rebuilt and just honed the cylinders, removed any ridge ,standard new rings(cast iron) and never had one smoke. I've never measured a bore, replaced a crank unless it was a complete basket case. always used standard brgs.
    tractorguy, VANDENPLAS and Blues4U like this.
  7. Get yourself a can of Restore if ya just have blo-by. You should get around 1,000 miles before you need more. Wally world carries it.
    NoelC and Kerrynzl like this.
  8. G-son
    Joined: Dec 19, 2012
    Posts: 1,045

    from Sweden

    Dont know if it can do that much difference, but in that case the cylinder should be out of round also at the unworn top end, not just further down where it's worn oval.
  9. I’ve always used the cast iron rings, I’ve been told that moly rings are a little more persnickety to get sealed. BTW, when I did my O/T Ranger, I also replaced the timing chain and sprockets.
  10. NoelC
    Joined: Mar 21, 2018
    Posts: 384


    I'm just saying... You have two guys, both have motors sitting on an engine stand.

    One guys say's "there it sits until I can afford to rebuild it".

    The other guy say's, it might burn a bit of oil at first until the rings seat themselves, but I'm going to be driving again soon.
  11. Moly for boosted or bottle fed.
    Cast iron for my junk.
    Re-ring if it’s in spec, close or it’s all you can afford.
    Along with re-ringing, I’m also on the same page with the total rebuild guys. For some, that’s their thing.
    Balancing/blue printing/ sonic testing/ flow bench/dyno tune…… I’m with ya
    Just drive em. Whatever it takes to make it go and stop
  12. I put new rings in a 305 SBC.

    The engine ran fine and made no strange noises prior to the new rings but the exhaust was a bit on the smelly side, no noticeable smoke though at any point other than when first started. I figured I should "fix what ain't broken".

    I removed the ridge (I have no idea how much wear there was, just that there was a definite ridge at the tops of each cylinder), "dingle-ball" honed each cylinder, cleaned the sides, tops, and ring grooves of all the pistons, replaced the rings and put it back together.

    I ended up with a noisy engine ... plenty of piston 'slap'. I figured between the "dingle balling" and cleaning the piston skirts/sides of the pistons, I ended up with way more clearance than it had when the pistons were "dirty". I retired that engine. Keep in mind, this engine ran perfectly, without any hint of piston slap before I got my hands on it.

    I then dug through my pile, found a 350 block that was already .020 with no ridge and did a quick ring/gaskets/heads off a low-mile crate engine/oil pump/timing chain on that block and I've been running it daily for several years now with no issues.

    I feel I learned my lesson ... if there is a noticeable ridge, it really should be bored.

    If I was ever to do rings again on a ridged block, I would definitely NOT clean the sides of the pistons.
  13. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 9,451


    Hey Kerry, do you have a link to those protec rings? I only came up with power sport sites.
  14. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 11,792

    jimmy six

    You will not have any problem with what you have done. After the carbon ball hone you can’t see any evidence of a taper.
  15. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,410


    They are made by ACL which was called Repco [ Now I believe Mahle ]
    Here is an old pdf [read the 2nd to last paragraph]

    I don't know if they're still called that anymore.
    They were a car dealers dream. I could by a cheap smoky car.
    New rings, and valve seals and good to go.
    [we could do an O/T fwd car in 3-4 hours start to finish, leaving the engine in place]

    My ownership expectations for vehicles are realistic, as soon as I buy a car I want to "flick it on"

    I'll search some more as I haven't done this for a while.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2022
    Budget36 likes this.
  16. dan c
    Joined: Jan 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,391

    dan c

    ever hear of steel-section rings? that's how a shadetree mechanic freshened an engine 60 or 70 years ago. supposedly don't even need to hone...
  17. panhead_pete
    Joined: Feb 22, 2006
    Posts: 3,115


    If you only plan to do another 6,000 miles maximum in it I would just keep driving it unless it gets really bad. Once you open it up it could easily go from a simple cheap job to one that is far more extensive and expensive and keep you off the road for an extended period.
    MARKDTN, rod1 and kevinrevin like this.
  18. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 5,767


    If it’s running pertty good now… will run a whole lot better with new rings….what ever the taper/ bore is!
    Back when I worked for a living I did a ton of engines that were way out of what most people considered “ wore out”! Some folks have poor ways and just needed something that would run!
    Folks here on the HAMB tend to want to build “ perfect” engines because it is mostly hobby engines and time usually isn’t important and the money to build right can be spread out so that is doesn’t break your wallet!
    But, back in the day, in the mud, blood and beer…..I did a lot of “ get me down the road” builds!
    And even raced a few of them! :D

  19. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,488

    Hot Rods Ta Hell

    Do you know how many miles are on the engine?
    Even if you can get away with just rings, you're in for a lot of work. The crank and cam stay and everything else gets blown apart. Full gasket set, maybe new water pump, chain, oil pump, etc while it's out.

    For 5-6 thousand miles in a lifetime, I wouldn't screw around with if it's running decent. Like Bob said, an occasional "mechanic in a can" (we won't tell anyone), I would keep driving it.
    kevinrevin and Boneyard51 like this.
  20. So far this summer I have put 250 miles on 390 ford f100 and 75 miles on my v8 60 model T . The 390 was fully rebuilt in 2000 and has under 5000 miles on it .v8 60 was bought as a used motor,a little blowby ,rattle can rebuild and runs like a champ.Got a hi performance 390 apart now ,fresh rebuild ,rings didn't seat due to over Rev upon start up , no springs on tri power and fell wide open and of course engine fired on first crank over ,,roller cam so no damage there ,oiling was forced fed thru machine .appeared to be undamaged but was using oil.
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  21. One of my worst/best street motors (+.030" 2-bolt stroker) had issues at 10,000 miles when it scuffed every cylinder. I was in a pinch, so I honed it out to .040" over (in the chassis) and it ended up at .005"-.006" loose with new hyperutectic pistons and moly rings. That's a NO-NO in anybody's book!

    However, it came out straight and loose, with some cylinders still not cleaning up all the way... It shouldn't have worked, but that sucker made 465hp and 593 torque on the dyno and I ran it another 35,000 miles, until I got leery of it, and replaced it with a .060" over 4-bolt stroker.

    It got 1200 miles to a qt. of oil and 19-20 mpg. I learned that some things, just really don't matter as much as I thought it did! ;)
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2022
  22. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,137

    Bert Kollar

    I recently rebuilt an off topic single cylinder engine that had a cylinder taper of .007". It is in a train engine I built and b4 the rebuild it sucked a pint of oil out in about 20 minutes. so I dont tolerate any taper anymore.
  23. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,326


    I was taught the same thing. I was told that chrome faced rings may never seat and moly faced may chip off the moly layer. I've had good luck reviving engines that were slightly worn, but I've always tried to be conscious of piston to wall clearances, too. Get too loose and it will make noise.
    The other thing is, I always temper the expectations. A re-ringed engine isn't going to last another 100,000 miles.
    bill gruendeman likes this.
  24. The cars Ive installed crate or pro built engines hardly ever get driven. Some are cranked to get on and off a trailer. I’ve got friends with some nice engines in their rides that sit in the shop or basement.
    The junk I’ve built that gets a crank turned, cyls honed and the heads checked gets the crap drove out of em. Sometime I wonder if it’s the $$$ spent on the ride that deters owners from enjoying them.
    I have a couple of “overhauls” with well over 30k on em with no signs of needing any work on em. Crap, some of these old engines we’re talking about were scheduled for overhauls at that mileage.
    With todays oils, I see no issue with getting a lot of miles on an engine with a simple overhaul that’s within acceptable specs.
    Some of the engines we end up with have been sitting a long time. Rings stick, oil gums up or becomes acidic……. so cleaning and simple overhauls work well for a cruiser.
    I had an issue with a 352 that could have been avoided just by removing it, cleaning and resealing. Ran great, pushrods stopped up and killed the valves. Engine was nearly completely gummed up. Had great oil pressure and compression. So doing what some consider a little can pay off.
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  25. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 22,194

    from Michigan

  26. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 1,513


    I must have been a rich guy back in my younger years. I could afford ring expanders, and getting my pistons and valve guides knurled,
    Deuces and firstinsteele like this.
  27. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 9,451


    I just looked into a knurling kit for valves for a 218 Chrysler since it won’t see a lot of use. Sticker shock made me run it as-is (non automotive use).
  28. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,739

    from So Cal

    If the cylinder wear is too much for just a re-ring job, you can have the piston's knurled to reduce slap.
    Deuces and Desoto291Hemi like this.
  29. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 5,767


    A 352 Ford engine?

    Deuces likes this.
  30. Yes.
    Great engine. Drove it for about 4 months after I bought the truck. Idiot me swapped in a 302 I had. The 352 had a lot more torque and the MPG was slightly better.
    I still have the 352.
    Deuces likes this.

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