Projects Rant : save your money

Whenever I phone in about a problem part (a lot) I always get the same textbook answer,,,"we haven't had that problem before".... it's always just me

 

I'm watching this thread intently and to be honest, I have a few concerns as I've been thinking of using the spring hangers in question. As to the shackles, I agree, the short shoulders render them useless. They are probably intended to work with the brass/steel bushings that SoCal supplies in their lower leafs, which measure just a hair under 2 5/16" installed, much like a stock spring. In fact, they are probably more "OEM than most of the other suppliers. I can understand their shackles would fit their springs. Just too bad they don't make that as well known if it is the case.

I'm concerned about the flex on the spring hangers. I've been building this type of hanger in house for years as well as a bunch of other people on here and I testify they have no measurable "flex" at all. My feeling is a monolithic forging should be stiffer still. I'd like to hear some opinions on this. Here is a pic of the ones I build which I've used for at least 20 years now without complaint. These are just carbon steel fabrications. There are some really good threads on here on how to make these. You might want to investigate using a like contraption. They do not use a stiffening web either.

 

Koz,

Your hangers look good. What is the hole in the frame for? (cross member)

I THINK WE WERE ALL BETTER OFF WHEN CHINA ONLY MADE RICE.




Ago

 

Koz, anymore pics of the hangers?...very nice.

 

That is true, those two are owned by the people - but it has Nothing to do with this problem

Why does everyone keep bringing Speedway into this? These are NOT Speedway parts, and that is a whole different subject.


31Vicky with a hemi - why don't you go right to the source? Obviously the counter guy who answered the phone did not have the right answers. Here, this is right from their web site;
Contact Pete Chapouris for more info
Phone: 909-469-6171 | Email: [email protected]
Maybe the head cheese will be able to give you some satisfaction

 

The hole in the frame is the inside of the 2 1/2" x .125 DOM crossmember that picked up an adjustable height spring hanger for the '40 cross spring and the shock mounts. You achieve maximum torsional stiffness when the tube goes both through the frame rail and the boxing plate inside so I try, whenever possible to weld both the rail and boxing plate.

I built this chassis for a customer probably 15+ years ago and this is most likely the only pic I have of this. I don't take a lot of pics of my own work. I use these all the time, (serious creature of habit!), and I'll see if I have any of other cars with this setup on that I have side views etc. I just cut these off some ancient shirt cardboard patterns I made up ages ago. If I can find somebody to transfer them to a CAD I could post them up here. No rocket science by any means. They work extremely well however. There are at least 40 pairs of these out there with no failures or complaints, (so far so good).

Since the subject has been mentioned, I will say I have nothing but good to say about SoCals parts. With so many variables in building a rod it is almost impossible for a manufacturer to supply a part that will just fit on everything. I feel the problem here is more with product description than manufacturing. It would be nice for suppliers to publish the specs on every part which would solve this problem but then everyone would just make the stuff and the R&D on the suppliers end would be just an unpaid consultant. Let's face it most of these parts aren't exactly new innovations and our parents were burning this stuff out of used boiler plate when I was still in diapers, and I'm in my 60's. If you can't build the stuff you need then you might have to do a little "adjustment" to make mass produced parts work. Our parents never had it this good.

 

If it has nothing to do with this problem, then "Let it go Louie."

 

Steve (Elpolacko on here) is your CAD man.
(866)553-8996

 

That's what i was saying to YOU

 

Elpolako probably has ten designs that are better than mine already programmed into his table! Good idea but he's in Arizona! I'll see if Yankee Dave on here can take them to work for me.

 

40 ford front spring and perches are 42 3/8 C/C at the bushing holes.

Yes that's a nice looking spring mount !

If that is the case on the pin for steel bushings, that's great. However all the parts were on a vacuume packed card together. I didnt have a choice on what bushings came on what pins.

This is also my thinking, the forging should be stiffer.

Thanks Don,
Maybe Pete has no control over who answers the phone, works the parts counter, or who packages parts. So all of this is going on under his nose without his knowledge- But he can help me? You being involved in the parts business would be received better I think. Maybe if I told Pete how thing went the counter guy will loose is job. I don't want that because its not his fault he has no business in that position. It's ultimately Pete's fault if hes the main cheese right ?

I thought the same thing on the quality, that's why I ordered from them.

You are absolutely correct, lots of variables. Pretty easy to figure out if "your parts will work with your parts" though right?

Ringy dingy. - hello thanks for calling So-cal.
I'd like to order your forged sping mounts and a set of your shackles that work with those mounts.

That's pretty much eliminatating every possible variable at that connection.

 

Don,
This is the same question I was going to ask? It is getting very annoying that people keep mentioning speedway when we are talking about "SO-CAL SPEED SHOP" Spring hangers. Once again for anyone who is confused This issue is with a Pair of "SO-CAL SPEED SHOP" Spring hangers. I do not understand why they were not mentioned in the first post, Why beat around the bush? Those Shackles Clearly do not work with those hangers with out Milling the hangers down. And if The expert from "SO-CAL SPEED SHOP" really told Him to leave the nuts Loose. Then The only thing he is an expert at is Being a Dipshit!! And he needs to be sweeping the floors. (with supervision ofcourse) intsead of working the counter. just my 2 cents anyhow

Also,
I do not want any confusion, As I do not want anyone thinking I am picking on So-Cal Speed shop. I was just clearing up Some Confusion that Some viewers of this thread might have had. I personally like the look of alot of So-Cal's Parts. But if they don't fit Then they are pretty much useless. I Myself have not used much of their stuff.

 

That guy should be fired. Telling customers to leave critical fasteners loose is asking for a lawsuit. Can you imagine if that advice was given to a gearhead with little experience? Unbelievable

 

Yeah, well something got lost in the translation.

 

wonder how the so-cal employee would feel if the shop that works on his car leaves nuts loose?

 

Here is a pic of the Pete and Jakes hangers. Now I realize that they do not have a I beam art deco feel to them. (But God damn't! They are under the car!!) Also notice the design, They stay tight to the housing making flex issues minimal. Also they do have a gusset to help with this also. These have been holding up for many years without issue under thousands of rods all over the world. Oh yeah!...and their shackles and bushings fit them as well.......And before anyone starts foaming at the mouth, Let me beat you to it. Yes I am a Pete and jakes dealer, And yes this is what I sell, And the reason I sell their stuff is not because of profit margins. I sell their stuff because it is quality. Period!!..........My profit would be much more If I sold the cheap Knock off stuff............Also In all the years I have been Dealing with them, I have never heard Jerry or Jason say "Just leave the nuts loose"...LOL

 

In my experience most counter guys are pretty up their products but I make it a practice to follow my gut when I'm talking to somebody I don't know. Let's face it, after you've been doing it for a while, you can pretty much tell who has it together and who doesn't. I deal with Sacramento SoCal a bit and they are good guys who know the product. Is this Greek to them? Probably! My feeling is the largest group of people answering the phones most likely wouldn't understand this problem if you laid the parts out on the counter and showed them the problem.

I do this for a living and spend an enormous amount of time machining and adjusting things that are supposed to bolt on just to get them so they will work properly. One of my recurring problems in getting clients to understand that that "kit" they bought off the web needed 8 hrs. time to make work. Building these cars requires a lot more than knowledge and skill than a lot of advertising people would have you believe.

I commend the OP for recognizing there was a problem and sorting it out. I can guarantee there are a lot of pro shops out there that would never have caught it.

 

You make some good points.

On the fitment side of stuff-
Lots of variables on these hotrod vehicles.
Wheels, tires, stance being the most visual up front in your face.
There's a bunch of stuff that needs to be in the right spot to get there and get it to work.

As far as hangers go there's a perch distance and that might need changed if the rear end is narrow. That's my case and changes the springs that can be used. Those are too short from axle to spring for a 40 ford front spring to clear the differential.

 

31Vicky: you're right on the hangers having different lengths to clear different differentials and allow proper axle line-up using stock location crossmember and keeping stock wheelbase. There are at least 3 different length spring hangers common in the aftermarket (at least I know I've bought 3 different ones trying to get the right ones lol).

I honestly think if you sent Pete an e-mail and attached the photos from the Post #1 and the post showing the shackles in Post #89, he would be able to see that:
a) you got the wrong shackles
b) there is significant deflection in the hangers

You should express your dissatisfaction and frustration, but keep it "business professional". You could even include the photos from my Post #48 and mention the fact that these hangers should include the bracing to eliminate that deflection.

You should also mention what you were told on the phone. Having someone tell you to "leave the nuts loose" on a suspension part is unsafe, regardless of if the fastener is a nyloc or not. Whether or not that guy gets fired is out of your control. It's better for him to be possibly punished than to keep him around telling people to do unsafe things that could lead to injury or death.

Hot rodding is supposed to be fun. Mistakes were made, and I believe they can be fixed. Let us know how things turn out. My offer still stands if you'd like a set of those hanger braces from the local SoCal here.

-Tim

 

Also, I was thinking: in the first photos, the spring is installed, which causes the deflection.

Was the rear ever installed to put weight over the spring?

That weight over the spring would push those hangers back into shape. I'm not saying this makes everything ok, and I still think the gusset should be used, but it could help us all better visualize what's going on here.

 

Brand new bolt on and drive Lincoln style drums.

 

Lol, yeah that needed to be remanufactured aka cores.

 

Here are some that a buddy of mine makes. His name is Cory Pugh and he owns Rjays Speed Shop

I have never personally used them, But I know Cory does good work and knows his way around Hotrods. Give him a call and tell him Doug at Cowtown said to Call. Also tell him about your issue with Socal, As he does sell some of their stuff. NUmber is 1-800-258-4204

 

I spoke with another hamber on the phone about this.
The weight of the car was not applied to the spring.
The weight of the car should extend the spring some and get the shackles at the ideal 45* angle. At that point, The straight line pull would be reduced but there will never be any type of push force, its all pulling until the shackles would go past 90*. To get over 90* there would be extreme load in the vehicle and that's much less likely to happen than the weight of the car being less on the spring.

The fact that it does flex that much, every time the car goes over a bump will play plus and minus with the springs deflection. Every time the spring lengthens eye to eye under the shackles the brackets would have a tendency to move back to the wheels. Every time the spring shortens eye to eye, the brackets would have a tendency to move to the center. All this eventually leading to some amount of fatiguing. How much movement? How long for fatigue, how good is the forging? I don't know and I'm not going to find out.

Yes they need a gusset. I don't want a gusset there. If the description of the item said it needed a gusset I wouldn't have been here with a rant. Since the description said " no gusset needed" here we all are.

See koz's post where he says he sees no detectable movement ?

 

All of what you said makes sense. Why the forged ones move and Koz's don't is beyond me. Even if the grade of steel used in the forging was extremely poor quality, you would think that the forging process would compensate for that and bring the deflection properties to AT LEAST that of a plate steel bracket such as Koz's. I dunno. It doesn't make sense. I would still put in a brace, but I think Koz's look great as is.

 

My brackets in effect do have a brace in a strange sort of way. My hangers are indeed made of plate but have a continuous band around them that acts in place of the typical triangle shaped gusset. The outside of the entire plate is wrapped with a band of 3/16" steel that is continuously welded around both the bracket and the housing. As I do my own rears I used, at least on this one, 3" OD DOM for the axle tubes which isn't going anywhere. The width of the band is 1 3/4" around the rear and tapers to the spring perch area where it is 1" in width. The fillet welds in the recessed area left when this is fabbed are hammered with a "scaler" which puts a nice cast type texture in the recessed area. I dress the outside areas after it is welded to make it look like a highlight polished forging, which it is not. I started making these in high school when one of my rich buddies had a pair of forged ones from an early manufacturer who's name escapes me. I think it was P something or other. It was just a cheap way of getting what I wanted with no money. My Pop ran a rod shop so I did have access to whatever I wanted, (as long as it didn't cost money, LOL)! Over the years I've cleaned up my original version and they are brutally stiff! There are also a pair of hangers that goes with this that mimic '36 style bone hangers but way stiffer as well.

Just for the record, the pair I pictured above are under a '40 pickup that is used as a bike hauler. We put a kind of "roll off" style assembly in the bed to pick up some pretty heavy bikes. The truck has been on the road, and still is about 15 years now and still looks pretty good. I used the same assembly under my old "A" roadster which had about a million miles on it without any problems. I trust them.

There was another thread on here a couple years ago where some young guy, maybe Oldsboy or one of the Texas guys was doing the same thing and his were way better than mine. Anybody recall that thread? I'd like to have a look at his again before I make another set.

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247764

Mine haven't broke yet,3000 miles so far.

 

I am not sure why they said these did not require a gusset, As it is clear to me that they are not made of heavy enough material to work without a gusset. Since you are using the type of rearend you are with a Buggy spring....Your choices are limited....It is a give and take matter. Really if you don't want to use a gusset Then You basicly only have 3 choices

(1) Use 35-36 bolt on rear radius rods.
(2) Find a pair of super rare PSI spring hangers. (They went out of business many years ago)
(3) Or make them yourself Out of strong and heavy enough steel to not require gussets.

I like Koz's design Notice his top plate tapers, (basicly a gusset)

 

Thanks Cowtown! PSI is the company I was thinking of. I think Sewards Speed Shop wanted $12 for a pair back then. No way I was spending that kind of big cash on a spring hanger!

 

Also,
Don't throw those brackets in the toilet and send them back.....Pointless to do that, They already basicly told you to piss off, So they are not going to care either way. Hell in an attempt to increase profits they may try to sell them to someone else and double their money.....LOL.....If I were you I would hang them up in my shop where I could see them often, That way you do not ever forget your Bad Dealing's with them. because sometimes if enough time goes by people forget they got burned and it can happen again. just my 2 cents