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Rant: People who think that drum brakes are dangerous

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tugmaster, Nov 13, 2011.

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  1. My off topic ride like this one came with discs on front from GM. But you still had to have enough sense to know that you need stopping distance related to the speed you travel. When I went through drivers ed they taught one car length for every ten miles of speed, a rule I still follow as a minimum.
     
  2. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,703

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    A lot of people are comparing apples with oranges on this thread.

    Drumbrakes became obsolete because they do not dissipate heat as well as discs.
    Not because they didnt work well.

    Heat is what creates brake fade.

    You can get brake fade with discs too ( I've done it...)

    Discs are not self energising like all the better drum setups are.
    ( a finned aluminum drum setup with 2, - 3, or more leading shoes is incredibly efficient )
     
  3. So are these...:D
    [​IMG]
     
  4. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,703

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    Thats cool.:)

    I've never seen those.
     
  5. Danog
    Joined: Apr 26, 2007
    Posts: 110

    Danog
    Member

     
  6. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,260

    Gman0046
    Member

    I can't even believe how someone can post that drum brakes are as efficient as discs. It doesn't make sense. They must be in denial for some reason. They probably think mechanical brakes are more efficient then hydraulic brakes. However that is more traditional.
     
  7. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Brakes are operated and maintained by humans,.... Drums, discs, they can only do as commanded by a driver,......

    4TTRUK
     
  8. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,907

    40FordGuy
    Member

    Those Pontiac 8 lugs were great ! I had them on a 61 Bonneville, and a 64 Bonneville. Did you check if a machine shop would be able to put liners in the drums, and turn them to original spec?

    4TTRUK
     

  9. The rant was that drums are not unsafe not that they are any better or any worse than discs.

    But seeing as you are stricken by the genius lets throw the discs from a '72 harley on an '58 buick. Because discs are better.

    Your statement isn't any more intellegent than the statements that you think you are refuting.
     
  10. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,746

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    As I mentioned previously and no one seems to address in all these posts is " the quality of friction material" here is an option for those of you who like drums but don't want brake fade.http://www.mpbrakes.com/products/product_line/drum_brakes.cfm#shoes There is one nice advantage to drums also you don't have to buy very much wheel cleaner to keep your wheels looking good and free of that black crap from the disc brakes.
     
  11. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,426

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage

    Im still running drums on an O/T 68 that came with them stock..and about 400 H.P.
    aint had a lick of problems with all the cars I owned that had drums ,from the factory

    still got drums all the way around on my 53 chevy too, and I even stuffed more ponies up front than stock, still stops fine

    hell I have probably owned more cars with drum brakes than I have owned that had disc

    the mantality probably comes from people who can barely drive the cars built today, let alone drive something that might need some attention to WTF they are doing
     
  12. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,703

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    That depends on your definition of efficient.

    When it comes to the force applied to the pedal ( or lever ) to get a certain amount of stopping power, then drums are more efficient.

    Thats why discs almost always have a power booster, and why a lot of manufacturers have a little drum setup just for the E-brake on 4 wheel disc cars.


    Again... Drums have their drawbacks.
    Big ones.

    But so do discs...
     
  13. Mr Shapes,
    A few years back I was having a discussion about a the importance of a cooling pump for the presses at the place I worked with an accountant. He thought that I was spending too much money on a backup pump.

    The VP in charge of my division butted into our dicsussion and said, give him the pump. Then looked at me and said why would you discuss neuclear fission with a cook.

    One of the problems with a conversation like we are having here is that it facts are not important, conjecture is important. No one is able to apply the information to a given situation.
     
  14. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,703

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    I think you are right.

    The air must be so thin, up there on their soapboxes, that its affecting their abillity to educate themselfs...
     
  15. Or else thay are stubborn like I am.

    I have a tendency to actually put to the test anything that I think is going to be better. Sometimes I have to back up and regroupe because what I thought was going to work better didn't fly in my own personal situation. I usually tell everyone that I just wanted to prove that it wouldn't work. :eek:

    I wonder if anyone makes any of those aircraft brakes small enough to use on one of our old hoopties. I would like to try them.
     
  16. Well crap,

    after reading the comments of all these "qualified hotrodders" I realize the only thing to do is go slash the tires on my 64 Chev Shortbox. It's the only way to keep myself and others safe....... It's a real shame that I just spent the money on redoing the entire stock system all around. If only you guys had been here to tell that drums were so dangerous.

    Seriously though, it's good to see that there are still a few people out there that have a clue, and will defend drum brakes. It's amazing that of all 7 pages of this I've only seen the real reason for the change to discs mentioned a few times. Discs are superior in dissipating heat over most stock drum systems, the heat being dissipated reduces the amount transferred to the fluid, and reduces the fade. People have also forgotten to take into account the improvement in fluids over the years. An old drum system with more modern high DOT fluids will fade far less than it would with old DOT2 or 3.

    In the end it comes down to the operator. Brakes are a mechanical component, and just like all mechanical things, THEY WILL FAIL. Without proper maintenance, and tuning you can expect crappy results. I'm reminded of my 68 Nova with non-power drums in drivers education class. My friend had a 72 Nova with stock power front discs and a narrowed Caprice 9c1 rear end with discs in the rear. The parts were good, but, there was no care taken in installing a proportioning valve, or figuring anything out. He constantly bagged on my Nova, and I had just gone through the brake system. One day I challenged him in class, and we set up a stopping course. My manual drum 68 would consistently stop shorter than his 72 power disc car. Am I saying that the drums were better, NO. I'm saying his poorly tuned system, and lack of understanding was far worse than my properly maintained, and adjusted system. As usual, the operator was the most important factor.
     
  17. Zerk
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,418

    Zerk
    Member

    I've seen shorter stopping distances with 4-wheel drums. What I can't say is that drums had consistantly better stopping than all disc or disc/drum.

    My dog is in another fight: the fruit jar vs. the dual pot. I like having a reserve braking system, no matter how lame. Hudson's hydraulic with a mechanical backup system I like even better.
     
  18. juanski
    Joined: Oct 9, 2006
    Posts: 455

    juanski
    Member

    only when your wasted off the booze
     
  19. Hdonlybob
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 3,924

    Hdonlybob
    Member

    I have drums on all fours, plus no power brakes or steering....OMG..I am scared to death now....YIKES......
    As others have said, where do these lick knobs get their info from....just plane dumb...
    Cheers............
     
  20. billy zz
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 241

    billy zz
    Member

    i have drums on all of my vehicles.
    matter of fact i got some speed bleeders for my 63 willys today.
    gonna go flush the system this afternoon.
     
  21. wombat barf
    Joined: May 1, 2011
    Posts: 366

    wombat barf
    Member
    from oklahoma

    I trust my drum brakes but my single reservoir fruit jar stop juice container......? not so much. I have all the parts to switch over to dual reservoir (yanked 'em off a '69 Econoline last year for $20) but haven't done the deed yet.

    back in high school my Fairlane did suffer complete brake failure (which sucked big green donkey weenies on it's own) but when you add to that scenario the fact that I liked to park bumper-to-bumper with my buddy's '59 International wrecker you add a whole 'nother degree of "OH EXCREMENT!" to the equation. I had enough presence of mind to shut the key off and yank back on the park brake handle but my hind end did pucker up and suck buttermilk for a few seconds. the stacked headlights and beat-up fenders of that old binder seemed to say, "you sure you want some of this?" as I a coasted to a stop about an three inches away from the beast.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  22. Zerk
    Joined: May 26, 2005
    Posts: 1,418

    Zerk
    Member

    :DBeen there, done that, got the skidmarks to prove it...only not from the tires, and not on the pavement...:eek:
     
  23. wsdad
    Joined: Dec 31, 2005
    Posts: 1,258

    wsdad
    Member


    The best defence is a good offence. :p
     
  24. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,260

    Gman0046
    Member

    Porknbeaner, can you please explain the analogy of Harley discs on a Buick.I can't figure that one out. Do you know what type of brakes modern high performance aircraft use? They are not drums I'll tell you that. Do you think they would be applicable for use on your automobiles? Sorry but some of your posts I have trouble understanding.
    I have a .22 pistol that works just fine. I also have a .44 Magnum pistol that does a better job. The statement about the two pistols make about as much sense as this thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  25. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,703

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    A brake is a device that uses friction to turn kinetic energy onto heat.

    That in itself is pretty crude...

    Which one is the best for the application depends on:

    Sizing, unsprung weight, cost, ease of manufacture, ease of maintenance, available space, type of use, aestetics ( yeah, that too...), etc.


    Brakes are really a very interesting subject.

    There is a lot to learn about the things that were tried, and which one of those worked.


    But be carefull...
    there is a lot of mis-information out there.

    Dont believe everything you hear or read, educate yourself...

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  26. 392
    Joined: Feb 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,199

    392
    Member

    wow ! thats why i read .........and dont respond WTF
     
  27. Blackmaria60
    Joined: Apr 30, 2008
    Posts: 532

    Blackmaria60
    Member

    ....and how!!
     
  28. jjsound
    Joined: May 27, 2008
    Posts: 391

    jjsound
    Member

    Like the drums on your Pete?!
     
  29. 40Standard
    Joined: Jul 30, 2005
    Posts: 5,826

    40Standard
    Member
    from Indy

    I don't give a shit about what kind of brakes you have, as long as they stop your car
     
  30. swimeasy
    Joined: Oct 17, 2006
    Posts: 1,067

    swimeasy
    Member

    X2! Screw em!!
     
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