The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Chuck Foster, Jul 14, 2011.
Well here's your dodge motor into an Rambler....
I'm doing an American altered..
I am building a 64 440 myself, but with an AMC 360, my friend is building a 65 with a mopar 318. I am glad you are going with the mopar engine instead a SBC. Hey waldo1949 what engine are you going to run in yours?
Get used to it!
I've had my 64 American for 30+ years. On the bright side it WILL draw some interesting characters as well!
Didn't one of the major mags do a 360 in a Rambler series build up just within the last coupla years? I seem to recall there was a lot of interchange posibilitys with minimum hassle to get the thing set up. Then it disappeared, from print anway.
It was Car Craft they have more articles it on thier website.
In the early 60s adapters were used by several car companies from the factory. Kaiser Jeep (AMC bought Jeep in 1970) bought 327 V-8s from AMC and used the GM "Universal" TH-400 behind it. The Universal TH-400 was the Buick Nailhead model, which had a shallow bell due to the couple inches of "skirt" on the Nailhead block around the flywheel. The shallow bell left plenty of room for an adapter, made by the using company. Rolls Royce, Jaguar, and others use that trans -- until demand got to be enough that it was practical to order a custom bell housing pattern transmission. Jeep used an adapter for the Th-400 to the Gen-2 AMC V-8 until around 74 or so.
I don't doubt that Chrysler would have made an adapter for HD applications in the early 60s, though I can't say for sure. AMC made special bell housings for their HD trannys, but they used the Borg Warner autos in the 60s with separate bell housings. Since the 727 would have only been used for taxis and other fleet customers, it may not have been cost effective to make a special case for the slant six due to low volume. Cost drives everything for major manufacturers! I've seen late 60s slant sixes with a 727, but from what I can find in a quick search the bell pattern changed to match the small block Chrysler in the mid 60s. Couldn't find a definitive year, just some saying the trans would bolt to a 318, some saying it wouldn't. Early ones wouldn't, but most still out there (later 60s-87) apparently will. No adaptor needed after the bell housing pattern change.
Didn't AMC use Torqueflites for the last few years of production? It that the case a slant 6 would have been pretty easy to put in the car. If the AMC straight 6 is being mis identified, than wouldn't a recent jeep 4.0 be a likely and inexpensive alternate engine?
AMC used Torueflites from 1972 on. The only thing that would help is the trans mount though. The AMC TF has an AMC engine pattern bell. Don't know if AMC or Chrysler stipulated that. Chrysler may not have wanted 100% interchangeability (all parts except main case interchange, gear ratios are even the same), or maybe AMC didn't. If AMC could have saved any money by changing the block casting instead of having Chrysler change the bell they sure would have! Maybe Chrysler was going to charge the same whether they changed the bell or not? AMC changed the four cylinder bell to match the Chevy 60* V-6 because they had a contract to buy manual trannys from GM, then had Chrysler cast 998 bells to fit the GM pattern 84-01, so go figure!
The 4.0L is a GREAT swap for a 64+ Rambler! The big cars (63+ on them) have a torque-tube through 66 so it's a bit more trouble with them. You have to use a 72+ transmission, but on the cars with open driveshaft the rear axle can be retained. The 4.0L with EFI (you can use a 1981+ 258 carb intake) has more power than the 304 V-8 even hopped up, about the same power as a BONE STOCK 1974 360/4V. The difference is there's a lot of potential to increase the power of that 360, the 4.0L is close to as much as you can get out of it without a super charger or turbo. You can add about 20-25% to the 4.0L without too much work, but you can add 50-60% more to the 360.
It is possible to use the older stick trannys with the 4.0L, but the American used a T-96 which won't take the power (I've tried!). 67+ V-8 manuals can be used with the V-8 bell -- the V-8 input shaft is about 1.5" longer than the six input.
And the world keeps turning. Now does anyone know how to make a Chrysler 360 fit in a 64 220 Rambler wagon. Whats needs to be changed? Being a MoPaR guy, Can I change the cross member for a Dart K frame and front end. Facts please, not opinions, tis
Leave the six cylinder crossmember. It should have had a 195.6, which has the intake made onto the head with an aluminum plate for the carb. Carb is only an inch or two from the valve cover. That crossmember has no "perches" welded on, mounts bolt straight to crossmember. What I'd do is lower the 360 (really any V-8, even AMC) in WITH THE ORIGINAL RUBBER MOUNTS IN PLACE and measure the distance between crossmember and mounts. Use a piece of 11 gauge (~1/8") or thicker rectangular tubing the proper dimension between the crossmember and mount. Drill the tubing to fit the mount, bolt to it, and lower in place. The original six cylinder mounts bolted up via a single 3/8" hole in the crossmemebr (one each side). With the spacer bolted on lower engine in place and mark those holes. Drill and tap for 3/8" FINE THREAD (hold better) bolts. Screw in through the bottom with loc-tite and lock washers. Hard to get inside the tubing for a nut. 1/8" thick is adequate for a fine thread bolt, but you might want to weld a piece of 1/4" plate inside if you're going to be running the car really hard, at least on the left hand mount (or use a torque strap). I mounted my 4.0L six this way, and others have followed suit with small block V-8s of various makes.
Alternately, a company called BullTear makes a V-8 adapter mount for the AMC small cars (American, Hornet, Gremlin, Concord, Spirit). It bolts to the AMC V-8 and the perches on the 199/232/258 six powered cars. If yours is one of the rare 64s with 232, you can modify those to bolt to the Chrysler 360 (67+ AMC V-8 has mounts near the middle of the engine like most small blocks). I'd just cut the perches off and use rectangular tubing though.
I bought a 64 Rambler American 220 wagon for a woman in colorado, two months ago. The car has literally has been sitting in a barn since 1976. So the engine doesn't run and all the tires are flat, though the engine has 22,000 on it. I have spent the last six weeks wait fore my new project car to be delivered. But as it turns out truckers just want to make easy money and drive a car on or off the trucks. Having to actually work for the money and break out a wench and cable is frowned upon. But all I can do is wait for a trucker that doesn't mind spending a little longer loading a car to come along. Or I'll have to fly out there and pick it up myself. I was hoping to spend my weeks vacation taking her apart and starting the drag car project.
At any rate. I have spent a lot of time reading up on changing the front ends so It will support a chrysler 360 magnum engine with a 727trany. A lot of people use mustang two suspension, I think I'm going try something different. As far as I can see, I'm going to use a 96 mustang front strut suspension. with a little modification and cursing, I believe it should work out.That way I can experiment with different coil over systems. Being a Mopar guy for ever, I would like to stay with a dana 60 rear. But this is the poor man project, I'm not a bank. so I'll be going with a ford 9". As far as mounting the 400 hp 360, Im just going to figure it out, trial and error. since theres no articles anywhere
That talks about swapping a AMC straight six for a chrysler 360 and what motor mounts to use,that I can fine. So, thats my game plan when she gets here.
Ford 8.8" from an Explorer is your best budget option -- unless you already have a Mustang Ford 9". On the Explorer rear you need to get a second short side axle and cut the long side tube down to fit the shorter axle, takes just under 3" (I think it's 2-7/8", but MEASURE BEFORE CUTTING!) out of the axle width, and it will be just about the width as the stock Rambler axle... no more than an inch wider, less IIRC.
As far as mounts, I posted about that earlier in this thread... my post just before yours. Works with just about any engine with mounts about mid ways on the block in the 64-65 American... or cut the perches from a later model and do the same on it.
Know it's a little off topic. I had a '62 American as my first car at 13. Drove it around my grandparents farm till the clutch gave out. Never did get it right. Mom made me get rid of it. Sure would like to find another one. First loves are hard to beat!
My first car, well, the first that I bought, was a 61 four door American. Pretty worn out, but drove it a year before it was put back out to pasture. Got a two door 62 for parts and discovered it was in so much better shape, except for the rod hanging out the oil pan, that I rebuilt the 61 flat head six and put it in the 62. Had 61-63 Americans through 1999 (79-99), the last one for 14 of those years, as my daily driver (wife got a much newer car). Tough little cars, tight engine bays. I've helped with a number of swaps from fours to V-8s, but just hot rodded the stock 196 OHV in my last one. The next will get a modern four. Something like TomJ's roadster, but I think a bit more refined...
What I REALLY would like to do is section the body 3-4" and build a newer version of the Rambler Palm Beach concept car... based on the 61-63 body. The section would be the main mod, then convert to a two seater with a modern four and five speed, but make it look like it could have been an AMC concept car. But the sectioning would be a daunting task -- might end up cut up and abandoned, and I hate the thought of that....
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