I'm using the 2.5 Rams Horns on my 65 Vette Smallblock. You can find the 2.5 inch Rams Horns available from Dorman Products and sold by a number of places including Summit I believe. The price is anywhere from around $55 to just under $100 depending on which actual casting you're looking for. The differences amount to the front alternator extensions. Mike T.
I was thinking of getting block huggers for my T but having two sets of these it was an easy choice and I love the look they give a motor. JW
Another voter for the 2 1/2" Ram Horns.. I managed to find an original set and have them on my beefed up 283. They are still around. Love them..as stated, less noise, no heat problems, good performance, and they just plain look better !
MAN, I thought this was a HOT ROD forum! Cast manifolds give up power - plain and simple. depending on the motor, it can be quite substantial even with shorty's. We were involved with a magazine deal a few years back and on a Mopar, between cast manifolds and Block Huggers there was 56.6 more HP with the Block huggers and 65.2 ft pounds of torque! Now granted this was a stout 440 that when Long Tubes went on it picked up even more and made just shy of 500 HP. But even a mild SBC can pick up 15-20 and I'm a Hot Rodder and don't want to leave that on the table.
I'm just not into chasing exhaust leaks once a week, or burning out starters. I know what you mean about tuned headers, but I'll leave 15hp on the table if I can reduce some of the ongoing maintenance issues.
Buy good parts and install then properly with good gaskets and that won't be a problem. I have touched the headers on my 37 that is driven weekly in a over a year and there are no leaks. And I've never had a starter problem that was caused by headers in 40 years of doing this shit. Of course most of my motors are Fords so I don't have that weak link - but i see tons of Chevy's with starter problems from heat that Don't have headers. Just my experience and opinion
Can't argue with that and why God loves big block Mopars. But the Rams Horn do have "the look" if you're into Chevys.
Was that in comparison to 2 1/2" Vette manifolds, or stock 2" or even 1 7/8"? I don't think the 2 1/2" Vette manifolds give THAT much hp up...
OP- which MII setup are you running? This is an important point. Ram horns- at least the vette style center dump ones - will drop the exhaust DIRECTLY OVER the steering shaft. I'm running the CE front end with Ram Horns- and I'm fabbing up some funky bends in the pipe to clear the steering and the clutch. I may have to raise the motor up another 1/2 inch to clear everything though. it's THAT TIGHT. Too tight for my tastes.
Understand your post, as well as your thoughts...Good points. I would be curious though if anyone has done tests on a SBC using 2 1/2" Ram Horns vs shorty and/or long headers in the ~300 hp range... (I am assuming your added HP below is from standard SBC manifolds..)
I'm going to switch to Speedway ss ram horns this winter, tired of changing gasket on left side of my coupe. Thru the years I have had different brands of headers, they look good, but in time and miles they all were grief.... Just my opinion from my experiences. John
But...you had an engine that really needed the extra breathing...you were using it on a dyno with the single intention of getting the highest readings possible...and the test was only over a short period of time so durability etc really was of no concern. Apples and oranges really. On the road dyno numbers don't mean anything, unless your at 10/10ths continuously...and thats impossible. For a driver the concerns are certainly performance...but also you must include durability, looks and cost over time. Rams horns beat headers hands down in durability and cost/time...for me, in looks as well...and the loss in top end performance is no big deal at all. To each his own....
Ram horns are less hassle, don't leak, and look fine. If it's not a race car, you don't need headers anyway. I have a set of ram horns on my 35 chevy.
read again - that was a 440 Mopar that the numbers you re quoted were for. I recently did a test on a very mild 327 Chevy in a '37 ford. It had stock ram horn style manifolds and 2" dual exhaust. I installed Patriot 1 5/8" long tubes and 2 1/2" exhaust. Even with this mild motor we picked up 15% in power, which translated to knocking off .7 seconds 0-60. BUT these were small ram horns, not 2 1/2" Of course Dyno numbers mean something in the real world, there is a lot more to Dyno charts than peal power, and that is why I listed the torque increase as well, and it was 65.2 ft lbs - and you better believe that you can feel that in everyday driving. It is NOT only top end performance. I can also tell you that the comparison test I did mentioned above on the '37 Ford is quite noticeable in everyday driving - it's my car and I drive it a lot. You are right to each his own, and every owner has to decide for himself if it is worthwhile, and to me it sure is.
I know you're right on the extra power but its still a bit misleading (not trying to be I fully realise!) because the first example you mentioned is a stout big block 440 and the 327 used long tube style headers. Reasonable to expect a larger increase from the big block (which really is a tough comparison because it doesn't use Chevy rams horns to start with. How could it though?) The 327 a much better example, but still off due to the engine size and header style. Really wish you had info on the exact comparison between rams horns and ECONOMY block hugger style headers on a single test engine. From what I've seen quality wise of the economy block huggers I would be shocked if they made an additional 15% power on a basicly stock 350. Quality long tube headers I would fully expect it. The issue with it all is though...are the tradeoffs worth that extra power? It comes down to a simple fact for me. Econo block huggers are junk quality/durability wise compared to an original Rams horn. I simply couldn't look at econo headers on my car and think I improved it in any way. I know...why is he talking ECONO block huggers? Because of this quote from the original poster: "So I finally decided to go with a 350 SBC in my 54 Bel Air, even though most of the responses to my query said to stay with the original inline 6. My decision was based on cost, reliability, and ease of finding parts." Within those parameters factory exhaust manifolds excel...plus if they fit properly the rams horns are traditional and do it with style!
if he was dragracing the thing I say yea go with the headers , but since most street cars hardly see the high side of 3000 rpm , breathing is not really needed unless he has a old dodge 700 series truck with a 413 gas job in it pulling 60,000 pounds .
I found an old dyno print-out from back when my 327 was originally built and it shows 408hp peak. Not sure what exhaust manifolds they ran on the dyno, but even with the rams horns it doesn't feel like a slouch...
It doesn't make any difference to me one way or the other as far as anyones choice goes. But having run many tube headers on many engines over the years I can tell you to have the flange surface machined flat, as in FLAT and use copper manifold gaskets. Tighten the bolts down evenly and leave them alone. Life will be good.
Here's mine on my '65 283 that's going in my 40 PU. I cleaned'em up a bit then had them thermo coated.
I agree,^^^^^^^^^ IF drag racing, it would be better to have regular headers with proper collectors for scavenging, instead of the shorties.
Go with a set of Ram Horns they look very good when cleaned up and HTP coated. I was very tight on my old ride, I routed the M2 linkage between the ram horn and the block. You need to support the shaft with a heim joint about half way, so it won't bind. I made a bracket to support the heim at the half way point. Don't use more then two u-joints in the shaft going to the M2 box. Straight down ram horm will work fine withe the M2 steering. I have a truck kick back ram if your fell you need it. CRUISER The ram below is the truck type ram horn that 26 T posted.
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