Hot Rods Quick Change, Quickchange

Came with a crossshaft and 2 spiders. Did not check the pin and spiders. Just going off of dimensions and similarity to 12 spline side gears I removed from 3/4 ton diff.

 

Thanks Blackout for the nice information and photos.

 

Update! The 28 spline gears are a drop in to the 3/4 ton unit. Same dimensions as the previously discussed 31 spline drop in replacement for the stock 12 spline. Whew! Mouthful!

This is what I had ordered. Was a roll of the dice but side gears fit perfect to diff housing and ORIGINAL spider gears

QCE had asked about the cross pin and spiders provided with the kit. I found the spiders to not fit very well. They could be shimmed inward but the originals fit much nicer. The crosspin, while diameter was the same was "short"

As you can see here with it racked all the way to the right. Now I'm sure it could be centered but some sort of slug would need to be made or pin in place somehow. So to summarize. For the ford 3/4 ton rear differential The 31 spline as suggested by QCE is a drop in. The 28 spline pictured above side gears are a drop in. Cool.

 

Thanks for all of your help and interest. I have become fascinated by these rear ends ( started when I was just a wee lad! Ha!) really though these are really cool " race" pieces and after a lifetime of messing around with 9" fords, danas, and Chevy rears I've found a new obsession and learn more everyday. Onward! Through the fog!

 

since this seems to be a technical thread on QC centers, I wanted to share a purchase I made a little while ago. Looking for more information and possible someone to help put it together.

Jones Magnesium, never assembled. Dimensional it looks like it is model A, but it has a pinion support? 9" bolt pattern, 3-1/4" wide. Anyone have any thoughts on this one?

 

Jr,
My computer doesn't seem to like photo bucket. Does the bolt pattern fit the V8 trumpets or Model A?
Halibrand had a V8 Midget which was a V8 center section shortened up to Model A length. All V8 components fit except the lower shaft.
Can you post the pics directly on here?
I'd take a crack at putting it together for you, but would like to see what you have and determine what you want when it's done.
Bruce

 

It is a Jones "QC400", V8 bells DO NOT fit, Have not tried A, as I currently do not have any laying around.

I recently had a Rodsville QC built up for my 34, I tried the bearings and the bearing cover plate, they fit, So I am assuming the internals might be V8.

When I was taking these pictures I tried to set in a 3:54 ring gear I had laying around, It DOES NOT fit

 

Here is the finished look from underneath with the notched fuel tank.

 

I have no first hand experience with the Jones QC400. I would bet that it would use Model A components including R&P and axle trumpets.

I have a hunch that a Winters Midget ring and pinion might fit.
Can you measure the bore for the pinion?
Maybe a picture showing the pinion retainer bolt pattern.
I'll check the stuff I have and see if it matches up.

Bruce

 

Bruce, I will measure soon. As I wrote before the pinion bearings and pinion bearing plate from my V8 Rodsville appeared to bolt right in. The bearings for the jack shaft also seemed to be a perfect fit to the shaft.

 

The rear covers for the Halibrand V8 and Midget were interchangeable. The bearings in the Midget were smaller O.D. but the I.D. was the same.
Does the Jones have support for a pinion nose bearing?
I measured a bearing cup for the Winters Midget today. 2.75" O.D. 2.080" deep. It does have a nose bearing.

 

When I started this thread, I envisioned that it would be 'All Things Quick Change.' I think that it is working out pretty good. I don't want to turn it into an advertisement but I need some help here.

I am looking at reproducing the adaptor side plates to enable the use of early Ford axle trumpets on 11 or 12 bolt 3/4 ton Quickchange center sections. These will be virtually identical to the Halibrand H852 parts. The pictures below are of original Halibrand parts.



They are not interchangeable but can both be machined from the same casting, which is what Halibrand did.

Anyway, what I’m trying to determine is: How much interest there is in having these available. The drawings are done and the patterns and match plates are ready to be machined. If the market is there, I will pull the trigger.

This link will take you to a new thread detailing the process and details of the plates.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/new-quickchange-parts-for-old-style-hot-rods.1004295/

If you are interested in purchasing this item, please message me and I will add you to a group conversation. This will provide you with the status of the process and give you the opportunity to take advantage of special pricing.

 

Bump for the afternoon crowd

 

I have a few dumb questions- how does a late style axle attach to the outer hub? I want to use the wide 5 drums on the right side of the lower picture and do not have axles. Can a black gold or tru-track locker be used with a frankland center and the truck cast bells on the upper picture? Thank you for all the knowledge being shared here!

 

QCE I have a Halibrand Champ QC which was built for me by a friend in the States. On the rear cover it has 310 cast on it- Is this the companies # for the Champ QC? Also earlier in this thread you mentioned 201 and 301 QC's. Does this refer to the early Model A and V8 QC's? This is a great thread with lots of info for anyone with a QC. Thanks.

 

Yes, Yes and yes. All that stuff can be put together as you said in the Frankland case.. The axles are available two ways, flanged that bolt directly to the hubs. Or, double splined that require a drive plate. Either the Gold Track or Tru-trac (as well as others) will work.

Looks like you have almost enough pieces to put it together. Ring & Pinion, some bearings and the differential?
Let me know what you need and I can fix you up.
I'd like to see some close up pictures of the aluminum bells. I think the one on the right might be a Lynn. No big deal, just an observation.
I just started looking for a pair of those hubs. Do you think the hubs are interchangeable between the disc brakes and the drums? I have drums but no hubs.

 

Swifty,
The 310 is the part number for the rear cover only. The designations for the center sections are 101 - Model A, 201-V8, and 301 Champ.
There are several Champ size centers all with the 301 number. Some will say Roadster. They also were available in 11 and 12 bolt configurations. Later Torrance cases could be drilled for either. In my opinion, the 12 bolt cases are prettier but I have built some killer 11 bolts by contouring the side plates/bells.
Bruce

 

Bruce, after posting my query yesterday I was under the chassis and found the "roadster" and "301" cast into the main housing. Mine is the 12 bolt version with the side plate adapters, early Ford bells, and with 8" Ford backing plates and axles. Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

 

Bruce,
Was there a certain time frame Halibrand produced the 301 "Roadster" Champs? What's the significance of the "Roadster" comparatively to the other 301 models? Thanks in advance for the history lesson!

 

I'm not the expert on when or why Halibrand did certain things. I have heard that the Roadster designation was to signify that this was the rear end used in the Indianapolis roadsters. An old Halibrand employee claims that the 'roadster' was mostly used in Midwest modifieds. My guess is that originally, the Roadster was a differentiation between the 12 bolt and 11 bolt cases but it all got blurred when they started making the castings so they could be machined for either bolt pattern. I also believe that the Roadster designation came after the move from Culver City to Torrance. I have never seen an 11 bolt Culver City case. I'm sure somebody will post something that blows my theories all to hell. I'd like to know the true story, too.
Something else that I wonder is, did the cases with the shifter cavity on the right side have 'Roadster'? And were there 11 and 12 bolt shifter cases? I have only seen 12 bolt shifter rears.

 

I have a Winters 301 champ style rearend. I plan to use it on a traditional rod, built to resemble the 1960 to 1965 era. I doubt there were a lot of these run on the street in the early '60's, but it will have kind of a super modified vibe.

Here's my question. I need to find end bells that would have been used around 1960. Cast Iron truck bells? Aftermarket? Suggestions? Thanks!

 

There are bells that look like the early 60s and some that were truly available then.

I'll get some pictures up shortly.

 

The cast iron truck ones were 11 bolt. Is your 301 a 12 bolt?

 

I'm not sure what I have. That's one reason I have sent it to GearheadsQCE.

 

It's an 11 bolt Winters case. He bought it from a fellow HAMBer and had it shipped to me. I'm picking it up a Fastenal in the morning. Seems like they got it here fairly quickly and the cost was quite a bit less than other shippers.

 

A little something I had noticed but have never seen discussed before. Halibrand made their 301 (Champ) Quickchange in both 11 and 12 bolt versions. I believe the 12 bolt case came first. It was very pleasing to the eye and became very popular in Sprint cars with live axles. Later, a center section was made available to utilize Ford truck side 11 bolt side bells. These are quite heavy and Ted started making side plate adaptors to accept the V8 car trumpets. The 12 bolt version is smaller in diameter and fits the 12 bolt case very nicely. The 11 bolt version, however, overlapped the 11 bolt center case, and didn't look all that good. Additionally, at some point there were center castings made that cold be drilled for either 11 or 12 bolt sides. These had some very large 'knots' cast in to accommodate stud bosses.

Recently, a customer bought an 11 bolt QC and had it shipped to me to build for him. It was so nice, that I suggested that he have it polished. It had a lot of overlap and I turned the O.D. of the plates to minimize the step. At my request, the polisher blended in the lumps and plates.
Here are the before and afters:


I think this came out exceptionally nice. Notice the shaping of both the center and side plates. I will post some more pics when I get it all reassembled.
BTW the repop side plates we are gearing up to make are large enough to work with the Halibrand and will bolt directly to a Winters/Frankland style 11 bolt center without having to do this extra step.
See the link below to find out more about the adaptor side plates.

 

Wish I had a project that needed those side plates.

 

Good thread. I have an old Frankland quick change that I took out of a oval track
car I had years ago. It has ford truck sidebells and straight tube axle housings
It has drum brakes and wide five aluminum brake drums. This thing is a beast
as far as size and weight. I am needing a pair of wheels for this rear as the plan
is to use it in a coupe I am gathering parts for. I have steel wheels but would like to
find a set of the wide five spoke wheels used on sprinters.

 

Well, start one.

Buy them now for the future. I can show you lots of stuff I have for several future projects. I'm only 67, so lots of time.

 

I'm not familiar with the wheel your are looking for. Got a picture?