Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical Question for 34 & 33 Ford builders/owners.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 34Larry, Mar 20, 2021.

  1. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    This is about a gap between the frame rail and the splash pan from the cowl to the grill. I came across this when building my fenderless highboy way back at least ten years ago, and reassembling it again just last week after reinstalling the tranny.
    This gap is tapered from the cowl going forward from about slightly more than 3/8" to about 1/4" between the frame rail and the splash pan. That is IF the rear end of the pan is mounted flush with the outside of the cowl which I just have assumed is the correct factory mounting. If mounted to the rail by bolting right to the rail, then the rear end of the pan is not flush to the outside of the cowl, and is then inside the cowl by something close to 3/8" or 7/16". :eek:
    When mounting them the first time back in the dark ages, I thought something must be wrong here, :eek: (I did not pay that close attention when taking it apart). I measured to see if maybe the frame had been pinched somewhere along the line, using the Wescott frame drawing, but it had not been. I had replace the pans because the pans that came on the car were butchered beyond salvation, so I checked the replacements to and against the ones on the car which I have to believe came with it when the little Ford was new. The replacements checked out to be the same configuration, as far as forming was concerned. So in order to fare in the rear end to the cowl outside surface I ended up making spacers and using them. The gap is not visible unless you look for it, and it does not bother me. I have always wanted to ask you guys if you know about this, or any thing about it? It is pretty hard to get a picture of it, but if needed I will give it a try, but won't promise good results.
     
  2. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 7,950

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are you referring to the inner fenders? I had a set of repops that were pitiful, ended up buying a set from SAR that were much better but I still cut them, fitted them to the cowl and grill and welded them back up. I even added a couple of more inches to the length at the rear to better cover the gap at the top of the frame. Hardly noticeable except to me. Same thing with the lower chin under the grille. The result is a tight finish that the factory never achieved (as these are inner fenders and not meant to be finished panels).

    I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Those holes are for my leather/spring hood straps.
    upload_2021-3-20_11-21-34.png
     
  3. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member


    Yes BB the inner fenders. The repops I got were great and seemed to nest with the originals, checking for the right forming but there was a ton of filling holes involved but not the lower bolt holes to the frame. I do not want to go through that again, so I'll just keep using the spacers.
    Still can't figure out why the gap though. Maybe some of the other 34/33 Blessed :), will chime in.
    Holy s*** I just looked up pricing, SAR=$350.00 other vendors about the same. I got these sometime in the late 90's, $180.00. Ah the times, they are changed.
    BTW, the Torqueflite is in, filled and moves the car in the garage, (47 feet) like it should. Just waiting now for it to dry out and take it on the road.
    [​IMG]will c
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
  4. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    Posted this question last Saturday. BB stepped in and no other response so I have to guess I didn't get my point told good enough or there is no reasonable answer. Not a problem though, it will remain a mystery, no explanation needed.
     

  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,251

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any repro parts are likely to fit different than original. Especially sheetmetal. The way that bead fits up next to the cowl's lower bead never seems to be right with original parts. I'd expect a repro part to need cuttin and fittin to line up perfectly.

    If the bead was pulled outward on the back corner, the lower half would fit tighter to the frame without spacers, right? Maybe your panels were just twisted a bit and needed simple massaging. Bolt them up tight at the bottom (no spacers), and give the top edge a yank outward at the rear. It's not like you need the fenders to fit right, you just need the bead to line up.
     
  6. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    Thanks alchemy for the come back, I right at that point and will do as you suggest, and see if that works.:)
     
  7. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,398

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

    This is an original inner panel hung for you to see, the gap to the body is a little much. 20210322_110506.jpeg 20210322_110435.jpeg 20210322_110358.jpeg

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  8. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    I guess I did not explain very good. The gap I'm referring to is between the splash apron and the frame rail. If bolting the apron to the frame like factory, and the grill like factory the rear end of the apron is at least 3/8 inboard of the outside surface of the cowl. I am toying with the bend angle of the apron just above the frame bolts at the present time. Thanks JB for the great pic's.
     
  9. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 17,251

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I understood you. I say if you can bend the panel in the couple inches beneath the bead, it probably wouldn't show in any fashion. Maybe crack some paint, but not look too misshapen. You only need less than half an inch.
     
  10. Johnboy34
    Joined: Jul 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,398

    Johnboy34
    Member
    from Seattle,Wa

    I guess I don't see what gap you refer to, my inner panel is even with the cowl on the outside & tight to the frame just like this when the grill & hood are on also.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  11. You're not seeing it because you don't have it with your combination of parts.

    Imagine your filler panel is lined up with the body and grille as intended, but there is now a gap between the frame rail and the lower flange of the filler panel where it bolts up to the frame rail.

    Now, imagine that same filler panel is now instead bolted to the frame rail causing the formed style line (bead) to be no longer in line with the corresponding feature on the bottom edge of the body.
     
    Johnboy34 likes this.
  12. Maybe it had something to do with the tilt front and it was on there long ago??
    It can’t be that hard to put a couple washers between the frame and inner fender panel get everything lined up again
     
    Bandit Billy and Johnboy34 like this.
  13. CAHotRodBoy
    Joined: Apr 22, 2005
    Posts: 404

    CAHotRodBoy
    Member

    Larry, can you post photos of what you are talking about?
     
  14. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 7,950

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I took this last night of my panel. Is this the area you are referring to Larry?
    upload_2021-3-23_17-2-13.png
     
  15. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    Yes BB that is where the mismatch happens if I bolt the panel to the frame like in your picture. That end you circle ends up at least 3/8" inside of being flush with the cowl like you show.
    Imagine now that with that end of the splash apron being where it should be (flush and fairing in with the cowl like your picture,).............that when looking down in between the the backside of the panel and the frame going forward where the bolts mount the panel to the frame, there is a gap the full length of the apron going all the way up up to the grill.


    CAHOTRODBOY getting a picture is difficult, I only have a cell camera, but I'll give it a shot.
    And BTW thanks all of you who are trying to help, I really appreciate that from you guys.
     
  16. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    31, I never thought of that, and I am using spacers to mount the panels. I can't figure it out. The frame is not pinched and the repop panels nested right in with the originals.
     
  17. Is the cowl wider than stock ?
    Was it channeled?
     
  18. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 7,950

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Sounds like the first repops I tried. I had to bend the beejeeves out of them to use them and in the end threw them in the trash and started over with better products. I had bent them to match the frame, sliced them open at the cowl and added steel to match the cowl lines, added more metal to the back corner so when you look down at it it was tidier, welded up all the fender attachment holes, welded up the headlight bracket hole, and when it was all done they were never gonna make my finicky standards. Bought the SARs and started welding again.
     
  19. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    No 31 to both questions.
    Just going to live with it. The panels themselves hide the gap unless you get you head right down in there, it just bugs me though know its there and not the way it is supposed to be.
     
  20. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    CAHotRodBoy, better late than never.

    So getting these was not as difficult as I imagined.

    Of course the frame is red and the panel is black. There are (3) of the spacers. This is the center bolt of the (3) with the spacer.
    GAP 2.jpg GAP 1.jpg
    The second pic is of the rear end of the panel with the spacer needed to make the the panel flush with the exterior of the cowl.

    I hope this clears up my inadequate explanation I started out with.
    BTW while working to get the lower header nuts tight yesterday, I think
    I understand the problem, and as Bandit Billy has suggested, it has to be
    the "repop" splash panels not being the right configuration. I have ran the
    car with the panels like this for a couple of years, (with this question in the
    back of my mind and not really caring that much). The gap does not show
    unless one really looks for it, and that gap could just give more air flow for
    cooling.
    Anyway this is the end of the saga unless there are more questions, of which I
    will gladly answer.
    34Larry
     
  21. Weedburner 40
    Joined: Jan 26, 2006
    Posts: 853

    Weedburner 40
    Member

    Having built several 33/34 cars, I have never had much of a problem making those parts line up. Of course, they have been fendered cars and the fenders tend to pull the panel out to the correct place. Fenderless cars don't have the fender to pull the inner panel into alignment with the cowl so they may need some "adjusting". I have also always been able to use original parts.
     
  22. 34Larry
    Joined: Apr 25, 2011
    Posts: 1,649

    34Larry
    Member

    Thanks Weedburner that is certainly a possibility I had not thought of, thank you.
     
  23. Weedburner 40
    Joined: Jan 26, 2006
    Posts: 853

    Weedburner 40
    Member

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.