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Technical Question 352 FE

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Sven.P.house, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,232

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    If you are putting the trans on the small dot between the green and N it starts out in second and would be slow in taking off,I had the same car and mine had 3.00 gears and would have kept the 352 but the previous owner did not like oil changes and it was a sludged up mess so it got a 390 and C-6. My 65 custom 500 also came with that motor and it ran great but smoked and had just enough compression that it did not like out regular grade of gas but it got yanked for a low mile 302 and manual trans for gas mileage.
     
    Sven.P.house likes this.
  2. Sven.P.house
    Joined: Apr 28, 2016
    Posts: 24

    Sven.P.house
    Member
    from Germany

    Great, thats a lot of good Informations for me. I will look for that and check first all Engine Parts,
    First the Oil Pressure is Great and the SparkPlugs looks great too...Here in Germany we say Fawn Brown :)
    The next Days i will....
    -check Vakuum
    -Compression
    -Timing And timing Chain.
    -Carburetor.
    Than i will tell U .....thanks a lot for the great Support
     
  3. You likely have a combination of little things. Timing a bit off, a bit of wear in the Timing chain, possibly the carbs secondary is not working, possibly the throttle linkage isn't adjusted properly and you are not getting full wide open when you mash it to the floor, maybe vacuum advance, possibly even a flat lobe or two on the camshaft. So you do a compression test first. Then check out everything doing one thing at a time. Lower rear gears will help. And the 59 352 interceptors where 300 hp. and in 61 there was a high HP 352.
     
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  4. I had 2 cars with the 352 4 barrel. Both '64 Fords, one was tired and using oil, the other a lot fresher. The fresher one was quiet and powerful. Like Old Wolf says, a lot of little things add up to hurt performance.

    I had helped someone with a 352 in a '65 Ford many years ago. It ran quiet and smoothly, but did use oil. It moved that heavy LTD along nicely. It had broken rings, a few bad lobes on the cam and a sloppy as heck timing chain. He picked up a remanufactured long block from a local Ford dealer, it was like night and day once we put it back together.
     
    Sven.P.house likes this.
  5. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,292

    carbking
    Member

    Sven - we had a 1963 Galaxie with 289 2-barrel, and a 1965 Galaxie with 352 4-barrel. Neither were racing cars, but both would burn the tires!

    As others have mentioned, probably several little things that add up to a lot.

    Someone mentioned an aluminum intake; my suggestion - don't. Has been awhile since I was playing with single 4-barrel on an FE, but I remember at the time changing to an aluminum intake lost about 60 pounds, AND LOST a few horsepower when compared with the original Ford cast iron intake! 60 pounds on a 4000 pound car is only about one and a half percent, and the intake is a real pain to change; plus you lose a few ponies.

    Do all your testing, and bring everything back to specs, and you should be happy with the results.

    Jon.
     
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  6. Sven.P.house
    Joined: Apr 28, 2016
    Posts: 24

    Sven.P.house
    Member
    from Germany

    Ok first Step is Done ;)
    Compression tested and on all Cylinders are 9,5 Bar i Think thats 137PSI.
    Thats Great.
    Second Step....Ignition Timing. Ignition was too Late . I look for the OT Mark on Flywheel and look if the Piston is in right Position. It was . Thats Good. Than i look for Ignition Time with a Ign. Lamp and saw The Ignition was to Late . I think only 1Degree before OT without Vakuum....Now its 10 Degree before....I have to borrow an adjustable lamp ...

    Carb is not original . Its an Edelbrock 1406. Spark Plugs looks Perfect . Light Brown .....

    I keep you up to date
    Greets from snowy Germany
     
  7. AnimalAin
    Joined: Jul 20, 2002
    Posts: 3,417

    AnimalAin
    Member

    If the initial timing is set at 1 deg BTDC, it's not surprising it won't run very well. I'd think 8 deg initial timing would be a pretty conservative place to start, and it might like more.
     
  8. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 4,189

    Fordors
    Member

    Sounds like you are on the right path now Sven, good news!
     
  9. junkyardjeff
    Joined: Jul 23, 2005
    Posts: 8,232

    junkyardjeff
    Member

    I had a harmonic balancer slip on a FE so it had to be timed by ear only.
     
  10. Fordors
    Joined: Sep 22, 2016
    Posts: 4,189

    Fordors
    Member

    Or use a vacuum gauge, advance it 'til it pulls maximum vacuum and then retard the timing until it just loses 1" of vacuum.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  11. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,604

    sunbeam
    Member

    If you pull the valve cover on #1 and turn the engine and watch the exhaust valve close and the intake open when they are both open the same amount you are within a degree or two of TDC. You can remark and time but it's best to replace if it's off at least mark the ring and the hub to see if it moves again.
     
  12. Better to use a piston stop. you add a length of anything to a spark plus. Make it long enough to hit the piston. The you by hand turn the engine until it locks up. mark the front pulley. Turn it the opposite direction until it locks up again. Mark the pulley. TDC is exactly between those two marked points.
     
  13. blue 49
    Joined: Dec 24, 2006
    Posts: 1,530

    blue 49
    Member
    from Iowa

    When I was a teenager, my parents had a '67 Country Squire with a 390 FE and I thought it was a slug. I don't think they were geared for very good acceleration.

    Gary
     
  14. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 5,604

    sunbeam
    Member

    Well made piston stops work ok but most home made ones from a spark plug flex it's hard to tell how much pressure you are putting on the stop when turning an assembled motor especially if the stop is hitting the piston very close to the top of the stroke. If you have a hemi where the stop goes straight down they work fine but you have a wedge the stop has to be very long to stop the piston far enough down to get a good reading.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
    loudbang likes this.
  15. FityFive
    Joined: Aug 9, 2010
    Posts: 320

    FityFive
    Member

    You may what to check your dwell (26-31) and points gap (.017) in your distributor. Once you do this, then check your timing. I have found that most FE fords like 36-38 total (no vacuum advance).
     
  16. WerbyFord
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 124

    WerbyFord
    Member

    The 352 is a dog but its not "that" bad, it is about the equal of a stock 1970s Chevy 350 in stock form. Some will disagree but I have had both and clocked them, its true. When well tuned, your 352 is actually underrated a bit (most Fords, for that matter most 1960s grocery-getter cars, were overrated). Yours makes about 255hp well tuned and in good shape. It is not a race car, as you have noticed, but for sure has passing power. Its weakest part (I've had several stock 352s) is on the low-end takeoff. You probably have a stock 3.00 rear gear in there, and the 352 has no low end at all - it acts like a small block because it IS a small block, in size.

    The best solution for what I think you want is [1] tune it, then [2] if thats not enough, rebuild it as a 390cid. People will practically give away 390 cranks these days because everybody is building a stroker. You can leave the top end totally as-is, you just need 390 crank, rods, and pistons, and just as a 390 it will have PLENTY of grocery-getter passing power, with no fancy parts.

    You might stop there, because you have an FX transmission behind that 352. It does NOT suck that much power - in fact, the c6 trans, which came out the next year in 1966, draws MORE power. The difference is though, if you get much over 300hp, you will destroy that FX trans, whereas the c6 trans is nearly indestructible.

    So if the 390 setup (again the cheapest fix) is not enough, get a stroker kit to 445cid. NOW you will want headers, bigger valves, a better intake, bigger carb, bigger cam, and a c6 trans so it will hold up. That is some big money, not sure its what you are after.

    As far as tuning I think the folks above covered it well, do all that stuff first.
    If you have a stopwatch, see if you can clock say 0-60mph (or 0-88kph), that should take 10 seconds give or take a second. That will tell you if its running right as a stock 352.

    Edit - I forgot, probably the one thing even a stock 352 would like is dual exhaust, if it doesnt have this already. 2" glasspacks is plenty for a stock 352 or even a stock 390 and make a BIG difference vs single exhaust.
     
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  17. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,316

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Slipped crankshaft harmonic damper (balancer) rings - where the timing marks live, are pretty common. Setting initial ignition timing with the vacuum gauge is a good workaround if this is the problem, but the balancer should be replaced because if the elastomeric bonding has deteriorated, the damper will no longer be able to its very important job of absorbing torsional crankshaft vibrations, in addition to making the timing marks inaccurate.

    When you are sure all that is remedied or serviceable run up the motor in neutral with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged and observe the distributor mechanical advance with a timing light. It should be smooth and clean through 2 to 3 thousand RPM and not sticky or erratic. A worn distributor, and/or one with an improper advance curve will be a "dog". Lots of people bolt on expensive carburetors and intakes but leave lots of performance on the table by ignoring the distributor and ignition advance curve. By installing lighter weight springs and limiting the total mechanical advance, enthusiasts can increase the initial timing advance without increasing the overall advance, just much earlier in the RPM. It is still 36° to 38°, much more snappy off the line around town and provides better power and economy.

    http://www.gofastforless.com/ignition/advance.htm
     
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  18. Sven.P.house
    Joined: Apr 28, 2016
    Posts: 24

    Sven.P.house
    Member
    from Germany

    Hi and Thanks for so much Informations. You are the Best.
    I would not like to rebuild the machine with expensive parts. I just want him to run sensibly. I do not need a racecar. I hope that i become the Car faster,with normal Settings .I think the Car Setup is Wrong like you said.. I'm trying to fix the Errors now and then. The first Step is done. It has reasonable Compression on all cylinders with 9.5 bar. The Ignition is controlled once again, as soon as I have an adjustable lamp. I hope the distributor is working properly. If I have understood correctly , I must have about 10 degrees initial timing (550RPM) and about 24 mechanical timing (2500rpm) without Vacuum. With Vaccum its about 34 degrees. Then I will control the vacuum of the carburetor again. For that I have a vacuum display. I hope after this the Car runs properly and I do not have to adjust the carburetor. The Sparkplugs have a great Color.

    Thanks a lot to @
     
  19. Truck64
    Joined: Oct 18, 2015
    Posts: 5,316

    Truck64
    Member
    from Ioway

    Nein, 34° to 36° degrees is proper and necessary for mechanical advance only (initial crankshaft + distributor); when this is dialed in satisfactorily then the vacuum advance is re-connected and adjusted. This will add more advance, but only when very lightly loaded and fuel mixtures very lean.

    When lightly loaded (as in cruising steady on level highway) the engine may see as much as 50° to 52° advance BTDC as only very few horsepower is needed. Vacuum advance is load dependent, distributor is RPM dependent, they complement each other but are completely independent of each other. If you want to bring your motor to specification you must be meticulous in this distributor business. Trust Me. You will thank yourself each and every time you drive it.
     
    loudbang likes this.
  20. Sven.P.house
    Joined: Apr 28, 2016
    Posts: 24

    Sven.P.house
    Member
    from Germany

    Ahh ja Thats Right ....There was a Brain defect :)
    Thnx
     
  21. MeanGene427
    Joined: Dec 15, 2010
    Posts: 2,058

    MeanGene427
    Member
    from Napa

    I've seen it mentioned a few times, but haven't seen you respond to it- are you sure you're putting the shifter in the right place, green dot? It's different than most and might think you should be on the first detent from neutral, which makes it start in second gear, nice in the snow, but real doggie when just driving. Please check that you're shifting it right so it starts out in first- makes a BIG difference
     
  22. Sven.P.house
    Joined: Apr 28, 2016
    Posts: 24

    Sven.P.house
    Member
    from Germany

    Shifter is in right Place ;)
     
  23. FityFive
    Joined: Aug 9, 2010
    Posts: 320

    FityFive
    Member

  24. Sven.P.house
    Joined: Apr 28, 2016
    Posts: 24

    Sven.P.house
    Member
    from Germany

    No Sorry ...I am so Busy at the Moment with Work. Will give u Feedback later ;)
     

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