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Pullmax help-laying a 3/4 half round in 18g steel?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Anderhart Speed, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. Anderhart Speed
    Joined: Nov 8, 2009
    Posts: 356

    Anderhart Speed
    Member

    So, I'm fab'n new quarters for my 30 A' coupe. Saving money and learning at the same time. Today at the shop I stayed after work and ran some test passes on the pullmax with the 3/4in. half round die. I'm using 18 g steel and I'm having a hard time getting the bead to lay right. Its all rough and wants to wrap the metal up in the die. After slicing my hands apart (being impatient and not de-burring the steel and not wearing glove-I know, I'm a dumbass) I decided to post a question to see if I could get any tips or help. Anything is appreciated guys, thanks!

    ~John~
     
  2. mottsrods
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 742

    mottsrods
    Member

    Well, first adjust your pressure lower, you'll have to make a second pass, but it will stop it from warping from each punch. Second, spray it down with some lube before you start, and keep spraying it down while doing it.

    Just my .07 cents
     
  3. Da' Bomb
    Joined: Apr 8, 2005
    Posts: 438

    Da' Bomb
    Member

    Can ya' post a couple photo's of the carnage? Sheet metal. Not your hand.
     
  4. Shobra
    Joined: Oct 6, 2008
    Posts: 82

    Shobra
    Member
    from SLC, Utah

    You can also do a little pre-stretching in the e-wheel or a plannishing hammer. Do this just on the area where you are placing the bead, remember that putting that bead in the metal is about the same as putting a tuck in it.

    Let us know what you figure out and the results
     

  5. Anderhart Speed
    Joined: Nov 8, 2009
    Posts: 356

    Anderhart Speed
    Member

    Thanks motts. I was messing around with gaps and feed speeds but didn't get to far because of the hand ordeal-and we're out of band aids at the shop so I called it quits early. I use WD-40 as a lube, what do you use?
     
  6. Anderhart Speed
    Joined: Nov 8, 2009
    Posts: 356

    Anderhart Speed
    Member

    Thats a good idea shobra. I use the planishing hammer when rolling beads in material. I'll give that a try. I'll post some pics tomorrow bomb. The bead itself is a little rough, other than being on an arc the edge on my side of the die is pretty good, and the metal from that towards me is nice. The edge closest to the throat of the machine is really rough and warped.
     
  7. carbuilder
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 982

    carbuilder
    Member

    Post some pictures of your dies close ups but not blurred, & how you have them set up in the machine. I usually take 3 to 5 passes depending on the depth. Also are you using cold roll or akdq steel. I prefer akdq it is a stamping steel & dose not want to warp as much as cold roll. That is why most of the car manufactures used it. But some good clear pictures will help so some sound suggestions can be made.
     
  8. Irrational Metalworks
    Joined: Feb 5, 2007
    Posts: 589

    Irrational Metalworks
    Alliance Vendor
    from DFW

    The first thing to do is make sure you are set on the shortest stroke and the fastest speed. Also the feed speed needs to be slow enough to where you dont see every hit, no row of little marks. It also needs to be done in 3 to 4 passes. With that large of a bead you are gathering up a bunch of metal, so pre stretching is a must. Die alignment is also critical.
     
  9. BAILEIGH INC
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 3,618

    BAILEIGH INC
    Alliance Vendor


    X2 lets see some pics!
     
  10. mottsrods
    Joined: Jul 9, 2008
    Posts: 742

    mottsrods
    Member

    I have used wd-40 but have found that Liquid Wrench(with Teflon) works better. What Shobra said will work to shrink/stretch the metal and soften it up before you start. But..... remember to do it on the correct side so your not working against the shrink/stretch. Go check out www.metalmeet.com too!
     
  11. Anderhart Speed
    Joined: Nov 8, 2009
    Posts: 356

    Anderhart Speed
    Member

    Okay, I have some pics for you guys, just have to figure out how to post them without my computer getting all freaked out and shutting down the webpage.

    Thanks for the great tips guys! I'll give them a shot tomorrow, and I'll take pics of the dies tomorrow and post them.

    I'm using Cold Rolled, never used Ak or Sk before. Most of my fabrication experience is with aluminum from race cars. I've only been heavily fabricating with steel for about 2 years now, so i'm still learning a lot. the pullmax is also still a pretty new machine to me. I've only used it to do small decorative beads, nothing with a lot of deep shape like this.

    I started with the machine on its fastest setting and a light stroke, which barely hit the metal. The next thing i did was a heavy stroke (it a double stroke, if you know what I mean) which just beat the shit out of the metal. So the next time I went to a mid-stroke single hit. Worked okay but still warped it. I finished that with a deep stroke which cleaned it up but it was already a little to far gone. I thinking I'm going too deep too fast because I have to put more force on it than I should have to to get the metal through the dies (leading to bleeding hands), also resulting in uneven feed speeds. Pretty much I can't keep control of the metal. What should the gap be between the two dies at their closest position?

    Thanks again guys, I'll post the pics once I figure this out, and I'll put up some pics of the dies tomorrow.
     
  12. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,615

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    Have your dies done this job correctly before? If they are new they may be shaped wrong. Are you doing a straight or curved bead? Are you running the piece against a guide? Adjust the guide up or down to allow the piece to stay level with the dies as it passes through them. Don't forget to lube the guide. I use just motor oil in a squart can to lube the guide and tooling. Clearance between upper and lower dies can matter. Obviously you need clearance greater than the thickness of the metal. Cold rolled should work fine.
     
  13. Anderhart Speed
    Joined: Nov 8, 2009
    Posts: 356

    Anderhart Speed
    Member

    Okay I have some pics, but for some reason either my computer won't let me upload them here or I'm retarded and can't figure out how to do it, so heres a link:

    http://www.hubgarage.com/mygarage/vehicles/52111

    Let me know if that doesn't work

    The pictures towards the top are the more recent and the ones towards the bottom (the messed up beads) are the originals.

    I think I've about got it done. I ran a few more today after work using some of the tips from you guys. I didn't prestretch the material on the planishing hammer because I didn't have much time, just wanted to give a few runs. All the beads are free hand-no guides. I did these in 3 passes, but I think adding two more passes and more gradually increasing the depth of the top die would be even better. I fed a little too fast, as you can see, and the dies were a little too close together, which you can also see. i did a free hand arc to see if I could do it, the machine just wants to pull the material with it, so that was good. If you guys have anything to add I'm all ears. I'm young and willing to try anything to learn. Thanks a bunch for the tips. Seriously, it is very appreciated!

    ~John~
     
  14. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,615

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    Looks to me like you are in TOO BIG OF A HURRY with everything you do.
     
  15. Anderhart Speed
    Joined: Nov 8, 2009
    Posts: 356

    Anderhart Speed
    Member

    yeah, this past week was pretty crazy schedule-wise.
     

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