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Pulling no punches....Hilborn fuel injection is killing me.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. FEDER
    Joined: Jan 5, 2003
    Posts: 1,269

    FEDER
    Member

    Racefab is right. Check the cam first Degree it to what the cam card says.Then go for the ignition -timing then fuel first things first.---FEDER
     
  2. If your cam is off you drill out the timing gear and install these little off-set bushings to bring it to where you need it...
    Anyway, I wouldn't do a dang thing until you degree it in.
    Sam.
     
  3. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,335

    Roothawg
    Member

    Remember the cam thar Crower couldn't give me specs on? This is it.

    The valves aren't floating , the seat pressures on the springs were 300+ at height.

    I may retard the cam back to where it was originally.

    FED, I am trying to locate some technical info on the injector setups. I don't have the leakdown tester to do the barrel valve, I need to get one. I may send the whole mofo to Hilborn but I gotta try, ya know? This is the same tank that was on this engine before so the vent is adequate, the hoses are all new and not kinked. The Pill box is all new including poppets.

    I may actually change the cam to something with a good spec that I can reference.

    Thanks for all the info.
     
  4. DON_WOW
    Joined: Feb 14, 2002
    Posts: 218

    DON_WOW
    Member Emeritus

    HEY ROOT-----QUOTE/I had no specs to begin with. Here [image]http://[/image] [​IMG] is a quick and easy way to find out if you got your cam in strait up adv or retarded.

    Roll engine to TDC on number 6, both valves closed --it just fired--OK.

    Now both valves on number 1 are open a little on overlap on TDC.

    Now measure the height of the exhaust and intake at top of pushrod at number 1 cyl, if intake manfold is off measure at top of lifters--better. the intake should be .030 higher than the exhaust for 6 degrees advance. If both are same cam is strait up , if exhaust is higher you fucked up and are retarded----NOT YOU--YOUR CAM LOL ULTRADYNE method---works good....
     
    falcongeorge likes this.
  5. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,335

    Roothawg
    Member

    Ya'll keep in mind that I am no PRO engine builder. Just a dork that likes cars.
     
  6. FEDER
    Joined: Jan 5, 2003
    Posts: 1,269

    FEDER
    Member

    Root
    heres Kinslers PH # (313) 362-1145 ask them for there 2 manuals they are $13.00
    Heres Hilborns PH # (949) 360-0909 ask for Don get the Performance with fuel injectors manual. Also cheap.
    Summit has a leakdown tester for 65 bucks part # sum-900010 there # is 1-800-230-3030.No shit Root get these three things and you will Be a master at this FI stuff in no time.And when you do a leakdown have your shop air at 90 PSI. Hope this helps good luck---FEDER
     
  7. Root...If your cam timing is off by only 2 or 3 degrees, either advanced or retarded, it won't be causing the problems you've outlined. If you're sure your ignition timing, etc. are correct, here's a trick I use to set the barrel valve without using leakdown.

    Get the engine idling and warmed up. Your injector has 2 hex links, the longer one connects the two throttle shafts on the right and left banks. The shorter one connects one throttle shaft to the barrel valve. With the engine warm and idling, loosen the socket-head pinch bolt on the short link's clamp to the throttle shaft (not at the barrel valve). When you slowly and carefully move the link and the barrel valve lever in the direction that would open the throttles you should notice the RPM dropping and black smoke coming from the exhaust. Conversely, when you move that link and lever in the other direction (closing throttles) the engine RPM should increase as the engine leans out. You should start to hear popping in the headers caused by the resulting lean condition. Try to find a midpoint between rich and lean (I prefer just slightly towards lean) and tighten that socket-head pinch bolt. This should get you real close on the barrel valve. After that simple operation you will need to change the jet in the return line for your high-RPM mixture.

    Of course, this all will depend on your injector, pump, lines, etc. being all properly matched up and correctly installed. I'm going to guess that you don't have a problem there. These systems are quite simple.

    Good luck ! [​IMG]
     
  8. Root....One more thing that occured to me. In your first post you said that the engine lays down at 5000 RPM and you heard popping in the exhaust. My experience is that popping in the exhaust is caused by a lean condition. And the fact that you can only achieve 5000 RPM tells me something else. I ran into this a few years back. The inline fuel filter was plugged up and wasn't allowing a sufficient quantity of fuel to the system. That caused the engine to not turn higher revs and also made it pop in the pipes because it was leaning out.

    Just a thought. But it comes from an actual experience. One more thing, if your system was way too rich you should be able to read carbon on your plugs (especially on the rims) with very little run time.

    Are you using stock heat range plugs ? I would. Maybe one step colder. If you have a Vertex mag the plug gap should be .020".
     
  9. Not to pirate another one of root's posts for my own personal use, but the is the .020" gap for all motors with the vertex magnetos? I haven't raced it yet but 0.030" gap ran good on my 413 with the vertex, should I take that down to 0.020"? Dave
     
  10. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,335

    Roothawg
    Member

    Man, you guys are full of questions......

    Let's see the plugs we are running are fairly cold....the equivelant to a 43 in AC.

    The gap on the plugs is .020"

    The popping in the exhaust could be when I let out....the guy that told me was TP here on the Hamb. He said it was popping in the traps but that could've been after I backed out of it.

    What I was noticing was if it did pop while tuning, it was always in the exhaust. When I talked to the guys at Joe Hunt and Hilborn, they both said the same thing...popping in the exhaust is a too rich condition, it's raw fuel hitting the pipes. Too lean is popping thru the injectors, which makes sense too.

    I am gonna buy several of these publications you have listed. I need all the help I can get.

    Thanks for all the advice.
     
  11. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,335

    Roothawg
    Member

    Dave, the reason is that with a mag, the faster it spins the more spark ya get. At idle it's pretty weak and ya might wash down your plugs.
     
  12. Might be part of the reason my car won't idle worth a shit. Thanks. You better get the fly running strong for the next hamb drags. I'm going to be gunning for you. [​IMG] Dave
     
  13. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,335

    Roothawg
    Member

    If it isn't running right by the next drags ..it's for sale. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  14. plan9
    Joined: Jun 3, 2003
    Posts: 4,008

    plan9
    Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    If it isn't running right by the next drags ..it's for sale. [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    how much?? [​IMG]

    dont say that... people will start mis-informing you [​IMG]

    excellant thread btw... read it several times already
     
  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 19,335

    Roothawg
    Member

    OK, I may have a little insight.
    Last night while laying in bed staring at the ceiling, I had a brainfart.

    So I jump up ad run out to the shop and pull the pill box out and I find a couple of small pieces of rubber. Not big enough to get hung up in the poppet but it may mean that the inner liner is deteriorating and swelling on the lines that go to the injectors.

    I called a local engine builder and drag racer and he told me that one of his buddies that built a frt engine car has had similar problems. I am gonna order all new lines for the nozzles and see where that gets us.
     
  16. Tony Travers
    Joined: Jan 11, 2010
    Posts: 63

    Tony Travers
    Member

    I know this is a mere 12 years ago but I have the same problem. Did you get it sorted
     
  17. if you found junk in the system,now check all the nozzles for junk. Also are you certain that the supply and return lines connected to the barrel valve correctly?
     
  18. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,883

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I never saw an answer concerning your going to a bigger pill. I wouldn't worry to much about the barrel valve. It's wide open very early in the throttle opening. Fooling with it with a leak down is only going to effect your idle and off idle. Ha nothing to do with WOT. Most pumps have differing flow volumes. Depends on how used they are. Your new pump could well be pumping more fuel than your old. If you didn't try to fix it with a pill change, I would go for the simple fix before I started tearing stuff all apart.
     

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