The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by k9racer, May 22, 2006.
Very interesting read, thank you for bringing it back from the dead
Wonder what Herbert was using to make this fire ball????Part of the barrel valve landed next to my sons friend. He wouldn't give or sell it back to the Herbert crew.
NASCAR types and roundy-rounders are the original cheaters, comes from born and bred moonshine running, look at ol' Smoky's history, Junior Johnson, Lee Petty.
There are a lot of nasty chemicals out there everyday....some even in gasoline. Comparing gasoline with some of them, and a person might consider a plug-in car and hope that the coal-fired generation isn't real close. This forum won't be as much fun with folks talking about wheels for their Leaf
I know, amazing isn't it!?
We used it in a Gas dragster back in the early 60s..never had a problem coz we did not OVER USE it...and it did pass a fuel check at the drags...Like the old Brylcream slogan."A little dab will do ya"
My Model Airplane partner Doug used to mix fuel for a large hobby shop in San Jose, CA.
We ran some 'B' Team Racers, our Nitro/Benzene fuel mixture was augmented with Prop Oxide...
One day some suits came to his fuel plant, asking to see his stock of Prop Oxide. There was a 55 gallon drum of it that was missing...
The suits said (in a monotone that would put you to sleep) that the Prop Oxide was popularly used as a 'drying agent' in the manufacture of meth-amphetimine. ("CRANK")
When I heard about it, I asked Doug what kind of a phone call someone made...
60's at the World Series @ Cordova...We mixed Po and some hydrazine...NOT a good ending to our 392...
Face mask, gloves, rubber apron to handle it.
Made a WILD exh flame show.....For a while!
Kind of reminds me of an interview I watched with "The Professor" one time. NHRA had raked him over the coals about his "gas". Johnson's statement was a sarcastic "I guess they want you to run it the way it comes out of the pump".
It's NOT cheating until you get caught (S.Y.)
Chili, I know you will remember this old saying:
If it's burnin' green it hydrazine
If it's puffin' white it Propylene
There were some very creative and daring drag racers back in the day that even mixed 100% nitro, hydrazine and propylene. Talk about a one shot grenade motor, if she stayed togrther to a thousand ft. it was a miracle, but it would sure give you one hell of a ride, until she started to scatter parts. I blew the crank out of the motor at Wichita Ks. on the mix. The old saying count to 5 and duck did'nt hold true with the mix, it was more like count to 2 and duck or at least get as low in the seat as possible.
Bob, I'll will bet that you did'nt use any type of protective clothing or mask when you mixed the shit, did ya.
I heard Don Garlits say in an interview once that the 100% nitromethane was very hard on motors. One of his competitors told him to mix it with 10-15% hydrazine to keep the motor from grenading.
I can see adding an oxygenator to methanol and gasoline, but I am curious as to why you would mix propylene oxide with nitro, as the nitro already brings available oxygen with it. Is the thinking some oxygen is good but more must be better?
A lot of stuff was banned for a good reason.
Saving racers from themselves is/was a constant problem.
The first time I was introduced to PO (Propylene Oxide) was in the late sixties by Richard Richards who had Pam one and Little Pam, two single engine Triumphs that Clem Johnson rode (The Barn Job Guy)
Richard was in my Garage/shop and had a small pint can of PO and he poured some in the lid that went to the can, poured it on the garage floor, lit a match and dropped it on the floor about three feet away and it lit that PO so fast I couldn't believe it...he said that's an ignite for Nitro...I said I have to get some of that stuff...
I ran PO in all my Single Fuel Harley and my Double King Rat Harley from 1968 to 1976 and I don't know what all the crap is about it being explosive...it has no connection with Hydrazine which has to be handle with great care, even contact with wood will sit it a blaze...Hydrazine needs to be contained in a glass bottle or stainless steel to be on the safe side, Big Daddy Don was known for using it...it did blow a lot of motors in "The Day"...NHRA added the yellow compound/color to the Nitro to detect the Hydrazine, they didn't want it ran any more...Leo Payne when he worked at S&S Cycle had a pint of it that he had buried in the ground behind the S&S Machine Shop and I don't think he ever dug it up...
I ran 2 % in every mix of 86 % nitro the rest cut with Alkie, Boris Murray ran 94 to 98 % in his Double Triumph cut with nothing but PO...
I believe as M/C Drag Racing progressed starting in the mid eighties that running higher Compression and Ignitions that put out more Amp, maybe the PO was acting differently than in my time...I was never afraid of PO at any time, even ran 6 % in nitro at Bonneville...
I don't think you can identify it, but I'm sure the NHRA can...it does not cause rusting, it does not call for a bigger jet than what you are already using for the Nitro mix you are running, it's only a powerful ignite r mostly use for Nitro even though it will up Gasoline power...
Granddaddy Joe Smith
Back in the 90's, we used the stuff for a little while in our limited off road VW based short course car. The last time it was used the "sponsor" and "owner" had a communication breakdown and both added the required amount for the race, doubling the maximum amount. Shortly before the finish, it smoked a hole through the head and was shooting out a 2 foot long flame. First time we were torn down by tech and we DNF'd.
Back in the seventies, during the gas shortages, when the only thing available was low test or bootlegged high test that was obviously low test, I used to use Moroso octane booster because my air cooled, high compression Harley would knock like an Avon lady on meth that had to pee. The mix would leave a brown residue like others have mentioned. Was that the P.O. stuff? I used that and their tetraethyl lead. One or both said to wear respirator and rubber gloves.
No Paul we did'nt...we just used it sparingly in gasoline only...Hell,I even put a dab in my lawn mower..I think it would have cut a 3" tree down..Hahahaha
It might be surprising to compare the dangers of PO with common pump gas.
http://www.marathonpetroleum.com/msds/ Both PO and pump gas are level 2 carcinogens
This is an interesting site because they give you the nasty compounds brewed into pump gas (incl the benzene compounds). I use to clean plugs in PO.......probably a lot safer than washing parts in gas. I ascribe to 408 AA/D "a little dab will do ya"
And then their is Picric Acid.....
Ahh, a new can o' worms. This is why I love the HAMB.
You may want to consider it being either M-3 or M-5 Methanol.
Both are VP products and are oxygenated which accelerates corrosion significantly ! Very common to use in 2-bbl carb dirt track motors.
Local old time Harley drag bike racer always cut his nitro with PO... seemed to work pretty well but not sure the percentage he ran. I know he swore by it
Propylene Oxide and or Hydrazine was used as an exciter for the nitromethane. You can pour nitro on a garage floor and throw matches in it all day and it won't ignite. You add a little Propylene Oxide or Hydrazine and you need to stand back. You put Nitro under pressure and then add some type of ignition and then it will go boom.
A little rocket science 101, Nitromethane is the fuel, Propylene Oxide or hydrazine is the oxidizer.
A entirely new can of worms indeed. Picric Acid was responsible for the Great Halifax Explosion in 1917. One of the largest non-nuclear blasts in history.
Nasty stuff. Has to be stored in glass or plastic, usually under a layer of water. Sensitive to shock and friction, and forms picrate salts that are even more volatile and hazardous when it is exposed to metal.
We ran PO in our drag car in the 70s. It was good for about 2 tenths.
Bugger! Now you've gone and made me want some...
Geez, some of you guys are surely up for a Darwin Award.
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