I know this shit is dangerous. While doing a search I saw nhra had baned it. I am the tech inspector at a local circle track. Last friday I was checking the carb and adapter and looked in the cast intake and it was very rusty. Thus oxydiation. The man who assembles the engines is a old drag racer.I know this shit is a carcinigen. So what I need to know is some way to check or prove that he is using this stuff. Any help would be appericated... Thank You.... Bobby..
I'm not positive but I doubt an engine would last long enough for roundie round racing on PO. Raises the Ox a lot. Chem analysis of the fuel? I'd advise checking with your counterpart at your local IHRA strip. I does my ol' heart good to see that circle track guys are as creative cheaters as drag racers. ha ha
Some octane boosters have manganese in them that leaves rusty looking deposits in the intake tracks. They might have acid ported the intake....
Methanol can do that too, its very corrosive. we ran speedway bikes for a few years, learned the hard way. heard that some people still ran an oxygenator with that and you couldn't tell. Call cody racing in Cal. Bill would know something
Not alchol. limited to a 7448 holley 350 cfm carb that I have gauges to check for mods. . only mod is you may remove choke plate.. not acid port as I have a intake and set of heads I did this to several years ago. The engine guy was baned from some drag events for using this shit. I will try to find out a offical from drag racing to find out.. Thank You for posting on this thread... Bobby...
I have used it w/ methanol (7%-10 %) years ago racing karts, it was also popular with motorcycle racers as a power additive I believe it will show on a hydrometer
I'm wondering if it turns the methenal brownish, there was a guy at that track once seen using it and he claimed it "turned bad", cheatin bastard!
Damn!!!!!!!!!!!that stuff is still around? I know people who tried it back in the late 50's and early 60's with disasterous results. LOL,,one guy had a Olds fuel car. He normally ran 50/50 nitro/alcohol due to the carb limitations. Couldn't put more nitro through it becuase of the density so he tried about 10% PO. BOOOOOOOM!!! No more Olds engine and it burned the shit outta him. However, for the 200 to 300 feet it ran....damn the power was good. My advice,,,,stay far far away.
I remember hearing about some stuff that was so volitile that if you took a cup of it and tossed it into the air, it would evaporate before it hit the ground. I think it was PO. PO fits in the same class as Hydrazine...just plain fun, if your comfortable with unpredicatable explosions.
An old thread I know, but I'm always disappointed when I see it banned in the rule books. it has been a suspected carcinogen for years, however I ordered and safely used a 20,000 gal railcar /mo for 30+ years. The final product (PGA)is common in salad dressings today. In racing it was a good initiator up to a couple percent and was balanced w/ benzene (known carcinogen) with the intent of controlling flame propogation. Anyway it might help w/ a lot dead cylinders that are common in fuel racing today. Its not UDMH (hydrazine) which is unstable in the container. UDMH, nitrobenzene and several other solvents are banned for good reason.
Almost everything is known to cause cancer in the state of California. Thank goodness I don't live there!
Propylene oxide was quite common in stock car racing in the '70's and '80's. I know its a carcinogen but I never saw it blow up. I think the stuff that blew up was hydrazine and I never saw that around here.
Yes sir, it most certainly was. Tech inspectors used to carefully look over the fuel lines as it would eat up and deteriorate neoprene or rubber.
"The" Steve Hmiel? Great to have you on here. I'm sure we could all learn a thing or 2 about a lot of stuff form your experience. I still remember a few years back when Billy Boat was driving for Foyt at Indy. Billy's engine split itself in half (literally) during practice. When interviewed, AJ just laughed and said "Yeah, when you put that Hydrazine to 'em, they blow up pretty good..." The explosion made such a mess that I believe it was the reason Indycar adopted the "diaper" that wraps around the engine in the car.
Since it adds oxygen, how about checking the carb jetting? It should give you a clue to what is going on and see if you need to dig deeper. Larry T
They use it on almonds..... I have "experimented" with al lot of fuel over the years and did use PO in an oval track car, however it burned a piston, DUH. And I got the stuff from a drag racer..... There was an octane booster that I used that did discolor the inside of the intake manifold brown, however I do not recall its name.....Methonal WILL show on a hydro test when mixed with gasoline.......cost me five positions in a race.....
Prop is very stinky stuff, take a whiff of the oil and it'll knock you over. Even in the enclosed trailor i can smell it. The treacherous thing about it is that it (so i'm told and i believe them) it won't recognise your skin - you come in contact with it and it'll get absorbed into your skin. Needless to say - do not inhale it! Yes, it'll make power to a certain point. Circle track guys generally run a quart to a 20gal fuel cell, jet up a few sizes and a touch more retard (they don't run any timing anyway) and you're good to go. Street racers run a pint in a stock fuel tank without any modification - timing, jetting etc. I think you can get up to about to a little over 10% thru a single carb but the fuel requirements are large - the engine will burn something, fuel or piston it don't care. When handling best to use high quality long rubber gloves, resperator if inside (and hold your breath) and wash afterwards. It is hard to detect unless you have hydrometer right on the spot, if you gather a fuel sample and check it later you'll wonder where it went as the stuff evaporates so quick that when spilled it almost won't hit the floor and what does will dry as you stare. My nose can detect it at quite a distance - the VP 40series fuel had the same type of oder. Other than that i don't know much about it.
P.O. was or may still be used as a fumigant in flower shops. Pro Comp racers were famous for using it in alky in the 70's and early 80's. It is the equivalent of liquid nitrous oxide. It isn't anything close to hydrazine. There used to be a model airplane shop in KC. Mo. that sold the stuff for an additive for cox 049 stuff. As to how to detect it, other than the smell, I don't know. I was always told that NHRA fuel check would catch it. It's been too many years since I was around it so that's all my feeble memory can recall.
PO isn't particularly detectable by smell...it has a typical sweet ether smell. The SG is a bit more than gasoline or methanol, however when you are only using a few percent, this test is weak. Its benefit in combustion is not heat, but giving some control to flame initiation with fuels other than gasoline. Gasoline (pump or race)has a multitude of components for the same purpose. I'm amazed that people claim to run 100% nitromethane or even 90% w/ MeOH with no control of the flame except a whole bunch of spark. The MSDS would be a good read if considering experimentation.
Just to clarify, as Yellow dog says prop smell is like either when it is still raw in the jug and you don't want to smell much if any at all. The smell when it is burned is the noticible one, esp in the oil. When you change the oil it'll knock you over. The smell inside a trailor of a car that uses prop will make you back up - very strong. Not an either smell, i have heard it described as burned almonds but i don't know where that came from - i've never smelled burned almonds that i know of. But it is a very strong distinctive odor.
Holy Shit, PO in an engine? I work in a chemical plant. We use PO as a feed stock to make our final product. It is very volatile and a carcinogen! We wear SCBA's (self contained breathing apparatus) when working on PO containing equipment. Racing is fun, but at what cost? I wouldn't carry a bottle of it in my car much less put it in my tank and introduce it to fire and pressure.They have meters to detect PO at the PPM (parts per millon) level. Any business selling safety equipment to industry should be able to get you one. If you can smell it you have exceeded the safety threshhold for PO! For you and your families sake, leave that shit alone!!
But I am still concerned all to hell. I mean I can't believe that there are roundy round racers that would bend the rules at all.
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