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Proposed 4 cylinder hambster

Discussion in 'HA/GR' started by teda265, Sep 1, 2009.

  1. teda265
    Joined: May 15, 2008
    Posts: 10

    teda265
    Member

    I thought i would run this past the HA/GR group first to see if there are any objections to it ,I'm hoping to transplant a 4 cylinder motor into my current slant 6 225ci Hambster that i've just started racing here in oz.The proposed engine is a Peugeot ohv slant 4 i would limit it to the 1618cc(99ci) XC versions to fit the pre 1962 engine cut off rule. A interesting feature is they have a hemi styled head on them which would help a little to compensate for the small capacity and not to mention i'd save about 200lb's in engine weight over my current slant 6.I'm hoping to do a couple of more meeting with the current set-up before changing to the pug motor early next year.
    Also are there any other 4 banger Hambsters that are currently racing ,I do know about one other being built here in Australia.
     
  2. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
    Member

    Not an expert on the XC series (learning the XU the hard way) but I imagine the crowd would like a few more deatils before deciding.

    Sounds interesting regardless.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  3. FANTASY FACTORY
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 256

    FANTASY FACTORY
    Member

    Well just as an FYI, here on Wrong Island my son and i are going Pinto Power.
    2.3 litres, 97 inchs of pure mushoom pulling power. I never expect to meet anyone from th site so i am building in the spirit while trying to conform to local bracket rules.
     
  4. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 10,845

    metalshapes
    Tech Editor

    That would be the Peugeot 403, right?

    I knew a guy who souped them up, back in the day.

    He'd change the siamesed intake to 4 individual runners, with 2 DCOE Webers.

    Massive improvement in torque...
     

  5. vectorsolid
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 498

    vectorsolid
    Member
    from Montana

    Pffft...:rolleyes:

    Teda265, Build what you want and have a good time. Who's to say that what you end up with isn't what we should have had the whole time? This sounds like a good example of YOUR vision, not Ryan's vision. It's possible they are not the same.

    Unless you're going to a "specific" rules enforced HA/GR event where it's critical, do your own thing baybee! And if your racing a regular group of rules enforced cars and you're slower... nobody is gonna care. ;)

    If you got parts laying around and are building this thing on the cheap, all the better. THAT is how it was done in the day. Made outta crap that was laying around. Used your personal "ingenious ways" to knock out a race car at home. I like it. Post pics. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  6. vectorsolid
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 498

    vectorsolid
    Member
    from Montana

    +1...
     
  7. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,974

    97
    Member


    There is a couple of guys here in NZ who run a Peugoet in a dragster, have been running it since the 70s, does about a 9 flat at 150 and wins more often than it looses.

    They have embarrassed a lot of V8s over the years.
     
  8. OBFB HA/GR
    Joined: Jun 2, 2008
    Posts: 455

    OBFB HA/GR
    Member

    Do it Ted , those little suckers sure can make some power. Like 97 says those guys in Kiwi land have realy got them to pull like a school boy.
    Good luck , and we'll see you out there again soon I hope.
     
  9. Old6rodder
    Joined: Jun 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,542

    Old6rodder
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from SoCal
    1. HA/GR owners group

    Yeah, the slant's a tough engine to shave weight off. One of the guys on the /6 site's gotten an aluminum one with a one-off aluminum head below 300 lbs. with a lot of fiddling. Not an undertaking for those short of drive. :D

    Your banger idea sounds good to me. I see not a thing wrong with reverse engineering to get to the concepts you want. We did that with our smog era SUs, reworked'em right on back to the correct period.
     
  10. hi ted

    rule # 13 as from the OZ HA/GR RULES is as follows

    13. Flathead v8 or in line, pre 1962 inline engines with stock cylinder blocks only. No OHV V8s or V6s.

    cant see "NO PUGS ALLOWED" in item 13
     
  11. homer78
    Joined: Jul 21, 2006
    Posts: 21

    homer78
    Member

    Welcome to the dark side .;)
     
  12. teda265
    Joined: May 15, 2008
    Posts: 10

    teda265
    Member

    The motor is from a 404 Peugeot but the 403 were sold around the same period 1955-1960's, the 403 looks like the car detective Colombo(aka Peter Falk) drove in the TV police show.
    Some of the spec's of the motor are 84mmx73mm bore x stroke 80HP SAE at 5600rpm stock & 132 lb torque.
    The conversion should be straight forward as i've been running a Peugeot 4 speed gearbox via a torque tube and worn drive diff set up in my HA/GR i'm already racing. It seems to be holding the power from the adapted stock 225ci slant 6 motor. (minus one burnt out clutch)
     
  13. Ron Golden
    Joined: Jan 30, 2005
    Posts: 513

    Ron Golden
    Member

    DO IT!!! Sounds perfect to me. I like 4-bangers.

    Ron
     
  14. QQMOON
    Joined: Oct 7, 2002
    Posts: 1,309

    QQMOON
    Member

    I would think the "IN THE SPRIT" would not mean 4cyl i could be wrong

    Austrailan or American Origin would be in the Sprit

    QQ
     
  15. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,584

    krooser
    Member

    An A banger would be OK... that's a 4 cyl. I'm considering a TR3 engine... or a slant six. I have both in my junk pile.
     
  16. vectorsolid
    Joined: Apr 28, 2008
    Posts: 498

    vectorsolid
    Member
    from Montana

    I feel, to oversimplify the whole "spirit" thing, the spirit is "in the doing", not in the rules, per se'. No easy task. ;)
     
  17. QQMOON
    Joined: Oct 7, 2002
    Posts: 1,309

    QQMOON
    Member

    I would even go as far as to say a Banger with a OHV conversion would be welcome as it,s in the pioneering "Sprit" that make,s it special to have a European engine in the rails just aint right

    QQ
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  18. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,974

    97
    Member

    What about a Banger (Model A or B) with a blower? :D:D:D:D
     
  19. krooser
    Joined: Jul 25, 2004
    Posts: 4,584

    krooser
    Member

    There were a lot of European cars dragging during the early days... some with American engines and some with their original powerplants... my brothers '55 XK140 was a regular.
     
  20. ScottV
    Joined: Jul 18, 2009
    Posts: 819

    ScottV
    Member

    This got me to thinking, the Triumph 2.0 liter 4 is pretty stout at just over 100hp stock. I have seen them make an easy 130hp in a streetable package and 200hp in full on race car.

    Hmmmm ....

    ScottV
     
  21. pants fit
    Joined: Sep 8, 2008
    Posts: 24

    pants fit
    Member

    2.3 pintos are 140 cube
     
  22. FANTASY FACTORY
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 256

    FANTASY FACTORY
    Member

    I re read that a 100 times and kept saying someting aint right, but it will come to me, DUH! 97 hp?, Ok back to our reg scheduled dremellling.
    [​IMG]
     
  23. pants fit
    Joined: Sep 8, 2008
    Posts: 24

    pants fit
    Member

    making a carb intake from injected ? Have you seen the inside of one that has already been done? It's like looking down on top of a christmas tree
     
  24. FANTASY FACTORY
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 256

    FANTASY FACTORY
    Member

    Yes i did, but $100 for an adapter dont sit right with me, after 2 hrs of the dremel, I went to the junk room and pulled out a nice desk, 1.5 thick hi density and laminated on both sides. epoxy coated in & out, wet sanded then 3 coats of urethane, cured 2 hrs at 190'. DONE!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I am going to tap the injector ports for pipe plugs, then maybe in the future put a small NO2 kit on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2009
  25. Four Banger
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 214

    Four Banger
    Member

    WooHoo! You're gonna love the torque that injector manifold gives you! I like your adapter/spacer/vibration supressor/heat sink!!!! That should do a good job.
     
  26. homer78
    Joined: Jul 21, 2006
    Posts: 21

    homer78
    Member

    Here is a couple of pics of mine before finishing off with the dremel.
     

    Attached Files:

  27. FANTASY FACTORY
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 256

    FANTASY FACTORY
    Member

    ooooh, thats purty !

    Watch for my muffled immitation zoomie header next!
     
  28. FANTASY FACTORY
    Joined: Mar 6, 2008
    Posts: 256

    FANTASY FACTORY
    Member

    I also made a open plenum spacer the same thickness, in case there are any distribution issues, since each cyl has a seperate runner till the flange.
    not sure if just the adapter portion is gonna be enough, track will reveal any issues.
    I found a holley 450 4bbl on the shelf last nite, so i'll whip up another plate for that one, If i drop the sec link, i'll have a 225 there, the 350 2bbl then the 450 4 bbl. thats enough choice to get into trouble with.
     
  29. pants fit
    Joined: Sep 8, 2008
    Posts: 24

    pants fit
    Member

    I'm talking about the inside of the plenum. If you look at the top you have 4 single tubes, if you start at the center and grind them to the outside so it looks like this /\
    from a side view in both directions, it looks like looking down on top of a Christmas tree or a broadhead from an arrow if you bow hunt. This will allow the fuel to distribute more evenly. Hope it helps Jim
     
  30. Four Banger
    Joined: Jan 6, 2009
    Posts: 214

    Four Banger
    Member

    On our Pro Four oval track cars, we had the best luck with the 350 Holley. We tried the 500, and used a couple different thickness spacers. Lap times had almost no variation between the 350 and 500, but throttle response off the corner was much better with the 350 and a 2 inch spacer. Since getting off the line is critical to et when drag racing, I'd use the 350 with a tall spacer (2 or 2&1/2 inch. Our engine was 2330cc, with about 12.5 to 1 squeeze, and a very nicely reworked oval port head with a Crane roller cam (234 duration and 486 lift if I recall correctly). We turned it 75-7600 rpm, and it pulled like a log skidder from the apex to the next turn on any size track we ran, from a tight quarer mile, to a half mile tri oval. You have an awesome carb/spacer/intake package there. That intake can be milled down at least 1/2 inch inside, if you desire more plenum area. But it's critical, just as Pants Fit said, to blend those four ports together in the center, to form a nicely rounded point in the center. If left flat, you will have very poor distribution, and possibly criticaly lean out one or more cylinders. I have no idea what you have planned for the rest of the engine, but here are a couple things we learned from sweat, blood, and general hard luck. On these engines, there is a ton of power to be found, if you spend a LOT of money. However, the difference between a full tilt animal (unreliable), and a VERY strong engine (as reliable as the sun) isn't all that much, except in the wallet. Build it to turn around 65-6800 rpm, and you need almost no trick parts. Stock rods and pistons work just fine up into the mid 6000 range. Also, port work just below the valve bowl (from the valve seat upward about an inch) gets you about 90 percent of the benefit of a full on expensive port job. Mill the block about .050, and mill the head all the way down to the lower intake bolt holes. That will give you around 11.75 to 12 to one compression. Buy an adjustable cam sprocket. Do NOT be afraid to use a hydraulic lifter cam. These work well, and are ZERO mainenance. In my Mini Stock I bought a used cam with only .430 lift, and retarded it 2 degrees. I used STOCK hydraulic lifters, and it pulled strongly up to 6600 rpm. My car weighted 2200 pounds with me aboard, and even with the super light clutch and flywheel, it would leave the pit road like it was fired out of a cannon. With a stock flywheel it would be awesome at the drag strip. You're going to LOVE this project....! PM me, and I would be glad to help in any way.
     

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