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Project 63 Riviera has started

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by PRDDETROIT, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. My 63 Riv is getting an upgrade. Awhile back, my old man (Kool66) found a freshly rebuilt 65 401 Riv motor with a 65 trans that needed rebuilt but, in good shape. Couldnt pass it up for the price. We had the trans rebuilt and collected all the parts to fit a 65 motor and trans into a 63. Even though they look similar, they are far different. There are quite a few pieces you need to get to complete the puzzle. Gas pedal, shifter, throttle assembly, trans kickdown switch, driveshaft assembly and more. We're gonna go into detail on this and take a lot of photos showing what it takes to do this swap. We also found a 65 Riv posi unit with a 3.08 gear which we needed to find anyway because the 65 driveshaft uses a flange at the rear. 63 64 and 65 are all very different when it comes to the drivetrain. We'll get to those details as it comes along. My Dad has been very busy getting and find all the parts needed to do this. He's been working his ass off and I love him and thank him with all of my heart. It been quite a while since him and I have been able to work on a car together since I moved to Los Angeles.
    Him and I did Route 66 together in the Riv when I bought it 5 years ago. We started in LA and drove all the way back to Dearborn. Our home town. After a visit, I drove back home to LA. It was the best vacation I've ever taken.
    Recently I have become engaged to an amazing woman and I wanted to get the Riv done before the wedding in oct. we had found the new motor and trans for far less than what it was going to cost to rebuild the original motor. So we jumped on it. But, the motor is in Michigan and the car was in LA and is my daily driver and I don't have a garage nor all the tools I needed to do it. I also was saving money to drop it 3 inches for our wedding photos. You gotta have a sweet getaway car :)
    In doing all this and planning my fiance's Dad said he was going to help and we shipped the car from LA to Dearborn while I've been on the road working for the last month and a half.
    So now, I have one more show to do and then I fly to my folks place in Dearborn on Saturday and we start wrenchin. The morning I get in, my Dad and I are going straight to the Downriver fort st cruise for the day and then later, start removing what we need to start the project.
    We will be pulling the motor, trans and rear end and replacing it with a 65 drivetrain then we will put in the 3inch drop springs from CSS. We plan on having it done in a few days and I will stay for a week, then my daughter and I are going to head out down Route 66 all the way back home to LA in the Riv ridin low with a hot new driveline.
    Again, I can't thank my Dad enough for all his hard work and my future father in law. I'm blessed with some very amazing people in my life.
    So, where we're at now. My Dads finishing up putting the motor together, the trans and rearend are done. It got a new exhaust system with magna flow glass packs that hug the frame. A new set of 3 inch drop springs and other parts.
    If anyone is interested in this build, info and pic's will be coming fast along with details on the job. I also want to thank Russ Martin for parts and his knowledge of Buicks and the information he's given us to help with this. And I'm sure my old man will chime in with the Buick guy we've gotten most of our parts from in Michigan. He is very fair and has treated us great.
    Here are some of the pic of the new motor/trans and some other pieces that has been rebuilt.
    Motor- 65-401 bored 030 over, new cam. Rebuilt from pan to carb
    Trans- 65 rebuilt with a new converter
    Driveshafts rebuilt with spicer guts
    We painted the motor silver like they did in 63 instead of the Buick green.
    Louvered valley tray and valve covers will come later. I've spent a lot already.
    I hope you guys enjoy this as it comes along over the next week.

    Dave
    (Motor and trans ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372405396.854568.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372405427.327908.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372405484.169905.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372405520.910194.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372405561.947864.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372405578.261645.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372405613.937559.jpg = before and after shots)


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  2. Cool! Good luck with the project. I admire your ambition, and the courage to trust that brand new drivetrain on a 2300 mile cross country trip! Keep us updated!

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  3. I'll be putting some break in miles on it before we split. You should have seen the car I drove out there when I moved. 89 Caprice that's was tired.
    But, I also have faith in mine and my Dads abilities and in the shops that did the motor and trans.
    And thanks. It's going to be fun to take a road trip with my daughter and show her some American history


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  4. slacker1965
    Joined: Aug 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    slacker1965
    Member

    nice, have fun, hope your trip goes well.... I hustled a new to me 75 f250 across this spring(towing a 22ft boat for 1/2 of it) so I know how these trips go....
    if you are documenting all the parts that you hafta change to put a '65 running gear in a '63 that would be a cool thing to share... I have been told that you can just switchout the flange on your '63 pumpkin with a 64/5 unit if you haven't found a posi...
    thanks for sharing, post pix when you can
     

  5. slacker1965
    Joined: Aug 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    slacker1965
    Member

    nice, have fun, hope your trip goes well.... I hustled a new to me 75 f250 across this spring(towing a 22ft boat for 1/2 of it) so I know how these trips go....
    if you are documenting all the parts that you hafta change to put a '65 running gear in a '63 that would be a cool thing to share... I have been told that you can just switchout the flange on your '63 pumpkin with a 64/5 unit if you haven't found a posi...
    thanks for sharing, post pix when you can
     
  6. robertsregal
    Joined: Oct 2, 2008
    Posts: 743

    robertsregal
    Member

    Lookin good keep the updates coming and good luck to you on the road!
     
  7. You can change it to a flange but, we happen to come across a really nice posi pig for 500 bucks. Kind of a no brainier. One major thing is the driveshaft lengths and the center bearing are completely different. And the 65 trans is the better of all three years. The throttle assembly is quite different also and requires everything. The pedal, linkage and mounting hardware. Plus the electric kickdown for the trans. I'm going to take as many detailed photos as possible as we go along starting tomorrow. And thank you


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  8. Well, day one was a success. Sent the morning at the Fort St. Cruise then headed back to the house and started tearing into the Riv. We pulled the hood off and removed the radiator and support. Took out the grille and headlights then pulled the all brackets and parts we'll use on the new motor. We have found a couple of differences in the new motor from the old. The vacuum port on the intake runner on a 63 is located in the front of the intake and the 65 has three pipe tapped inlets on the rear of the intake. Also the 65 crossmember is much short and is located further back than a 63. We have to drill the frame a touch for the bolts to mount it. But as it sits now, we are ready to yank the old motor and trans tomorrow. Here are some shots from today's work ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372566647.656553.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372566682.570973.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372566719.019190.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372566745.205727.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372566774.232981.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372566802.006289.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372566824.372201.jpg


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  9. slacker1965
    Joined: Aug 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    slacker1965
    Member

    thanks for sharing...I shoulda asked you to take a b4 detail pic of the dynaflo linkage & coil...my 63 doesn't have the same tapped mounting holes for the coil as my 65....
    hope your conversion goes well!
    ks
     
  10. captain scarlet
    Joined: Jun 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,429

    captain scarlet
    Member
    from Detroit

    Good luck - looks like this will be a blast:)
     
  11. They change the coil location in 65. The linkage on the dynaflow come down the passenger side (a rod from the shifter) to a tab connected to a rod that runs under the trans to the driver side to the tab that engages the trans. There is a mounting bracket. I'll take a photo tomorrow for you


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  12. A lot done today thanks to some really great people. Pulled the old motor and trans, the driveshafts, rearend, rear springs and shocks and the rear Trackbar. Pulling the grille and radiator support made it a ton easier to pull the motor. You also have to take the passenger side exhaust manifold off. It will hang up a little View attachment 1971184 View attachment 1971185 View attachment 1971186 View attachment 1971187 ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372652621.014242.jpg
    The driveshafts- take out two carrier bearing bolts in the center of the frame, undo the U-joints at the pig and pull it out from the back. It will not come out the front and is pretty easy to fish out.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372652415.769774.jpg pull the rearend is simple. Wheels off, pull the drum, remove four bolts behind the axle hub, pull the axles out til they become free. Then, just like a ford 9-inch, pull the pig. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372652943.726302.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372652967.600452.jpg removed the rear track bar. This is important. If your Riv clunks sometimes and seems loose like it wants to steer it self, this is why. If the bushings in that track bar have not been replaced, they are shot. They are prone to wear. Russ Martin sells urethane replacements. Pull it, pop the old rubber out, you'll have to press or cut like I did the steel sleeve that surrounds the rubber with a hack saw just through the thin sleeve and pop it out. I used a chisel once I cut it to work it out. If yours are in good shape and you have a press, you can press them out. Either way, this makes a world of difference how the car handles. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372653751.232236.jpg the rear springs and shocks are pretty straight forward. Shocks- pull the bolts, replace the shocks. The springs- pull the upper and lower retaining bolts. Drop the rearend as far as it go. Remove the shocks, have jack under the rear end and lower until there's No force against them. Pull the bolts, and it drops right out. Installing the new- get it in the right position, start the nuts on the bolts just before snug and make sure the cup shaped retainer seat good in the spring. Jack up the rearend until the bottom of the spring seats level against the control arm and then tighten. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372658097.624012.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372658123.297234.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372658168.141600.jpg
    The rearend- 63 axle fit a 65 pig. Installed a 3.08 posi from a 65 Riv. 65 uses a flange instead of U-joints to attach to the rearend so a 65 driveshaft set is required. (Ill have side by side detailed photos tomorrow during assembly) long day, tired, starting back on it in the morning. On to all the tricky stuff, 65 carrier bearing relocate, 65 gas pedal install, 65 crossmember install, 65 shifter, and Motor and trans. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372658841.682610.jpg
    My new exhaust.


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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
  13. Great info!

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  14. Thanks everyone. Slacker1956- here is pics of the dynaflow linkage and throttle assembly for the pitch control.
    More info today. All the tricky but required pieces to convert a 63 to a 65 drivetrain. The driveshafts are quite different and ill take pics and show you why later. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372686297.591836.jpg


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  15. Had to put her down to wash the engine compartment. I'm so stoked! Rearend and springs done. Engine and trans in later. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372695378.124891.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372695398.256106.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372695432.215296.jpg


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  16. Doctor Detroit
    Joined: Aug 12, 2010
    Posts: 1,051

    Doctor Detroit
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This looks like it's going to be a cool thread. I'm gonna have to subscribe to see the progress....
     
  17. Nice...how long you in town? If the weather would cooperate it would be cool to see it rolling before you head west.
     
  18. Probably til Monday or Tuesday


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  19. I'm hope to be test driving tomorrow night


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  20. We got the engine compartment cleaned up. Before and after. View attachment 1972081 View attachment 1972082
    Shifter and gas pedal. When switching a 63 to a 65 drivetrain in a Riv, you must get all the pieces of the puzzle. The shifter which is different. The 65 shifter has more throw and is totally different in design. To do this, you have to take the seats out and remove the center console to do this. Be careful! The old plastic center console are FRAGILE! They crack if you force on it. Mine already has some cracks which I'll deal with later. I have plan. But, remove it, take the old shifter out which is a four bolt mount in 63 and replace it with the 65 shifter which is a two bolt mount and use the mounting holes on the passenger side of the center hump. Now, this is the delema. Because the throw of a 65 is greater, the slot in the 63 bezel is short you will not be be to manually shift back to first gear. You will be able to get second but, not first. So for now, I'm gonna to use a 64 lens. Later when I do the interior, I will stretch the center console a few inches and customize the top console chrome plates using some 63 and 65 pieces to make a custom console that is right. But for now. This is what it will be. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372767679.128091.jpg
    Yesterday I had to custom fit the crossmember from a 65 into the 63 frame. Make sure you have a good straight crossmember. We measured the front hole location on a 65 frame from the bottom of the from at 1 inch. Because of the angles of the X frame, the crossmember kind of locates itself but, make sure side to side, it's sitting level, then mark your front holes at 1 inch from the bottom of the frame and drill. Once you do that. Make sure it level with the frame and mark and drill the rears. The hard part is getting the nuts on the bolts inside the frame. I didn't want to drill any extra holes for a wrench so there are two big slots on a 63 frame. I was able to hold the nuts inside the frame and get them started. We used nuts and bolts with ribbed locking tabs. Then, for the trans linkage, you will have to locate and drill a 3/8's hole in the inside of the frame for the shifter linkage shaft to go into. I'll have pics of the linkage installed later. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372769548.811934.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372769562.741379.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372769578.637832.jpg
    You also have to use a 65 gas pedal assembly which has electrical switches for the trans. So you have to drill two extra holes in the firewall to mount it. I'll have pics shortly.
    Now, I'm going to deal with the driveshaft. They are very different and the carrier bearings do not locate in the same place.
    Also, all of this is for us guys that don't have the money or time to pull the body off the frame and do it. If I had the time and money. I'd do it differently.

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372770221.019916.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372770275.384128.jpg


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  21. Painter D
    Joined: Jan 9, 2009
    Posts: 277

    Painter D
    Member
    from DFW

    Nice progress, keep the updates coming.
     
  22. slacker1965
    Joined: Aug 17, 2007
    Posts: 120

    slacker1965
    Member

    thanks for taking the time to do that pic......hope your trip goes well
    ks
     
  23. No problem slacker


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  24. Here are pics of the gas pedal assembly
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372854631.253944.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372854749.841046.jpg you use the two existing hole and drill two other offset holes. The reason you need all of this is because of how the 65 trans operates. I has an electrically controlled torque and an electric kick down switch mounted on the manifold.
    Yesterday I had to drill through the box in the X frame to be able to mount the carrier bearing. 63 and 65 are very different. 63 has a short drive shaft up front and a longer on in the rear that hooks to the rearend via u-joints. 65 the driveshafts are more equal in length with a flange style rearend. The problems are, the 63 carrier bearing is quite different in where it mounts up and the bolt spread is greater than the 65. The new 65 locates roughly 3 inch further back than the 63 so you have to find center of the frame and measure out and drill. With the body still on the car, this is tricky because that part of the frame is boxed. You will also need to make a 2.50 spacer block to put between the frame and the carrier bearing. 65 is shorter in height than the 63. I will take comparison pics later.
    Today we will be finishing and test driving. The drivetrain is in. Just need to put in the front springs and final assembly of the motor. Talk to ya later
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372856391.859992.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372856532.333294.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372856646.551115.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372856728.764120.jpg


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  25. She'll be running tomorrow ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372910397.827959.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372910432.473159.jpg


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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2013
  26. Almost there! ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372965167.886931.jpg


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  27. Well? Is it alive??
     
  28. It's alive!!
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372996664.400570.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372996809.136307.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1372996856.976489.jpg


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  29. I'll have more tomorrow once it's washed and more details. My old man and I put in 4- 18hr days. I love him very much and very great for him.
    Talk to ya tomorrow


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  30. Took her for a nice long drive with my fiancé. Runs and drives like a dream
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1373061688.453666.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1373061791.673476.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1373061878.703998.jpg


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