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Projects Project 29 Phaeton

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 340HilbornDuster, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,956

    340HilbornDuster
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    ph-1.jpg View attachment 1851785 29 Phaeton 340 Hilborn.jpg The Tub.jpg A couple of weeks ago when i got the Phaeton, a doodled this (one of the ideas)
    It's Picture 1 + Picture 2 = Drawing (Also looks like at ride a GNRS...?)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  2. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    29p-4.jpg 29p-1.jpg 29p-6.jpg Someone here on HAMB correctly said "that thing's been channeled.
    Yup! I wonder what hot rod shop did this quality work?
    Diamond plate held on with two bolts to the frame,
    Tacked to the sheet metal. Lotsa a work for a crappy job!
    And this stuff i heavy!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  3. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    29p-2.jpg 29p-7.jpg 29p-5.jpg 29p-3.jpg 29p-0.jpg They also cut the bottom out with a dull hack saw.
    Luckily the firewall piece is still intact to be welded back.
    Some rust in the rear, Back is fiberglassed on the bottom.
    All the doors are ibn good shape and the top of the body is really good!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  4. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    29p-9.jpg 29p-00.jpg front1.jpg The "hot rod shop" bolted new homemade front framerails to the chassis. Yikers!
    Out with the Old - In with a new 32 chassis, front end - http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=772787 - 32 rear spring,
    8-3/4 rear end (with crown nuts and cotter pins at eh end of the axles)?
    And two rear axle bolt on "bones"...

    TIME TO GET STARTED! LOTS TO LEARN!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  5. Boyd Who
    Joined: Nov 9, 2001
    Posts: 2,196

    Boyd Who
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    Wow...I thought my Essex was a hack job! You have your work cut out for you. I'll definitely be following the progress on this! :)
     
  6. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    Can't wait to get started!
    I'm getting:
    Cowl Quarter Panels
    Cowl Post Patches (6")
    Rear Inner Fender patch Panels
    & a Dash Reinforcement Bar
    The rest is pretty much flat metal patches...
     
  7. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,956

    340HilbornDuster
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    I'm just about to get the sheet metal pieces in my last post...(found "reasonable shipping to Hawaii.)

    My "sectioned" Phaeton is missing all lower sheet metal.

    Sub Rail?
    What does the "Sub Rail" look like?
    Does it show below the doors and provide the reveal line that goes from Cowl Post and back.
    Does the Phaeton even have a reveal line below the doors.
    They sell full length sub rails with oversize shipping...(No want to spend the money) and i think i can just make one.

    Any Pictures of the lower section would really help!
    Mahalo
    Tommy
     
  8. Carter
    Joined: Mar 18, 2006
    Posts: 1,445

    Carter
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    The reveal line below the doors is provided by the front and rear sill plates on 28/9 phaeton.
     
  9. metal man
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,949

    metal man
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    Subrails are the lower structure of the body. It runs from the firewall all the way back to the arched crossmember below the rear body panel. It also has several pieces that go across from one side to the other. It holds the body together and bolts to the frame.

    The subrails don't hang below the body. A new set of subrails will be at least five pieces.
     
  10. metal man
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,949

    metal man
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    Also, since you are using a deuce frame, you will not be able to use the rear portion of the subrails. You may be better off making them yourself, depending on your skill level.
     
  11. metal man
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
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    metal man
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  12. T&A Flathead
    Joined: Apr 28, 2007
    Posts: 1,910

    T&A Flathead
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    I was the one that thought it looked channeled in the first pics. I'm pretty sure you can get subrails from Mac's and Schneider's. Both sell original repop model A parts. Bert's in Colorado has a model a bone yard that has a ton of original parts. Ive not been disappointed yet.
     
  13. metal man
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,949

    metal man
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    Here is a picture of the subrail at the front door opening, followed by a picture of the sill plate that screws on over it and creates the bead under the door.

    I would take more pictures of my subrails, but I have modified them quite a bit and I don't want to confuse you;).
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    p1.jpg p2.jpg p3.jpg p4.jpg Finally in the garage! (Charger is ready for paint!)

    Pictures says more than a thousand words...

    Tool the cowl apart, everythings gone except most of the cowl posts.
    LUCKY ME! When i bought the car, it cam with a rust free tank...
    And thet make all the other patch pieces!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  15. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    p5.jpg p6.jpg p7.jpg p8.jpg s'more
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  16. metal man
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 2,949

    metal man
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    You have a good collection of parts there.The front suspension you have is from a '37-'39 Ford, and they obviously have the spring out in front of the axle. I want to make sure you understand that you will need to get a front spring up on top of the axle, like the Model A. Otherwise, you will be shortening your wheelbase and it will look weird.

    You can split that nice, long '37-'40 wishbone,cut the spring hangers off of it, and use the Model A axle and spring. The Model A axle can be dropped nicely, whereas the later axles do not drop well because of the very short distance between perch boss and king pin boss.
     
  17. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    From the look of the picture with the diamond plate and cowl mounted, it looks like you might have enough subrail left to work with. it's the section that is curved along the outside welded to the diamond plate. in your case it looks to go all the way back to the front of the rear wheel well. Carefully cut it loose of the diamond plate and break some 16ga. to replace the top and inner channels and weld it all together. Get the afore mentioned rear deuce frame subrail kit and your there.
     
  18. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    Thanks for all the pictures / clarifications...My head is clear now!...i think?

    Carefull removal:
    I pretty much kicked it and the diamond plates fell off!
    It's scary to think that someone actally drove this car.
    Most of the suspension bolts was missing the cotter pins.

    Plan:
    After the checking/adjusting the frame for squareness....
    My plan is to tack the body together (door gaps / alignment set) with metal bands,
    place it on/above the frame and build subrails out of thin wall square tubing or brake metal pieces to make a constant reveal line...Since the body is missing the bottom 2-3 inches I'll make the body fit the subrails that fit the 32 frame allready.

    Depending on how the curvature fits the frame, I've seen somebody section the body about half an inch to make it look cleaner.

    Then when the bodies is set, I'll set the rear axle, motor etc.

    The front axle is cool but i don't think i can get it low enough.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8602313#post8602313
    A dropped 39 axle would be cool...?
     
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  19. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
    Member

    The thing with "A" bodies on a deuce frame is that the front of the rails kick up just before the firewall. One of the ways it was done "back in the day" was to prop the body up on the rails at the front, cut the subrails at the back and let the body come down some what level. What would happen from there was a thin gap would form from basically the door pillar to the front of the rear wheel well. That was filled with a hard wood spacer that would be painted body color and dissappear in the side view. Problem with this method was that it made the body look "tall". I can't quite explain it, but that simple inch spacer made things look to upright or tall. The better way in my opinion is to "channel" or over hang the body at the front where the small kick up is, cut the rear of the sbrails away for the kick at the rear, and set the body directly on the flat of the top of the chassis. If you look at the old pictures here, and in say the Don Montgomery books, you'll see the two different ways of doing this quite graphically. With a channeled body you are half way there.

    As I read through what I just wrote it sounds a bit like babble, but look a bit before you leap on this one.
     
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  20. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    True that! & great babble!!
    That's what HAMB is all about, bounsing ideas and learning from others!

    After i tak it together, I'll probably move it around for days, grab a chair & a Cold 1, look at it untill it sits just right.

    When it looks good I'll make it fit the 32 frame. There's nothing to loose..cause it rusted away allready.

    IT'S ALL IN THE STANCE!
    I made those plywood wheel to see where it sits before i continue.
    The 39 front suspension with the spring in front?
    If i can find a dropped 39 axle, I might just go with it...
    Cause it's different, it's Old school (Wally Parks did) and it's COOL!
    Someone said "it's like painting a mustach on Mona Lisa, Don't do it!"....AWESOME!

    Mahalo
    Tommy
     
  21. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,906

    need louvers ?
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    Naw, go with the "A" type axle like Metal Man above said. Or '32-'36. Split the bones and put the spring on top. I know it sounds boring and formula, but there is a reason why it is... It just flat looks right! The '37-'41 when dropped just aren't pretty and best suited burried under a fat fendered car. Wally Parks red hiboy is about the only compelling argument ever made for the spring in front suspension, but even then it looked a bit odd at the bottom of the grill. The other way, with the spring in the '32's crossmember just makes the car look like it's falling forward all the time.

    Best idea yet about propping it all up and looking at it! I used to have an old rocking chair in the shop to jut sit in and stare at what I had created. I found I didn't always get lot's of stuff done, but what I did looked bitchin'!
     
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  22. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    p10.jpg p11.jpg p9.jpg Front axle:
    I like my own style but NOT if i can't get the stance....
    We'll see?

    This is what's left of the cowls...like someone dipped the whole thing in acid...OR welded it to galvanized diamond plate.
    It's the same for center posts and the rear section.

    Posts are good and will be great with lower patch panels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  23. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    s20130220_184032.jpg s20130220_184049.jpg sP1200658.jpg sP1200661.jpg The bottom of the dash rail is totally rusted away...top part is good.
    Most places MAC's etc lists this part but no-one have it in stock.

    Bent a piece of 1/8 steel to be welded to the dash Rail.
    Should make it stronger than original.
    ...waiting for some patch panels.

    T
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  24. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG 4.jpg Some small progress....
    While waiting for the patch panels to arrive....

    Luckily the "butchers" included the cut out fire wall panel.

    Spring CleanUp .... 31.5"

    T
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  25. Looka like its going to be a fun build
     
  26. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    p1.jpg p2.jpg p3.jpg p4.jpg Let's get it started!

    Just got my panels from Snyder's.
    Super Fast Shipping USPS!

    Good Quality...Needs a little massaging but Very Nice!
    Real Ford Steel!

    And the Cowl Posts had enough Material...Wasn't sure how much was missing!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  27. Beau
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 1,883

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    I think the spring in front will make it look like it has an overbite. Most people seem to move the axle forward, and not backward.

    Lookin forward to the build!
     
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  28. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
    Posts: 1,956

    340HilbornDuster
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    p5.jpg p6.jpg p7.jpg p8.jpg p9.jpg It's like a giant puzzle by Henry that's missing all the bottom pieces...

    Tomorrow after work I'm going to cut some supports out in the back so I can align the rear section.
    After that I can square up all the pieces and tack them together.
    And then build up the bottom section.

    They only sell Rear section Subrails or Full Subrails.
    Don't need the rears & the full subrails was too expensive + they required oversize shipping cost...(To Hawaii - probabaly would have costed more than the rails)

    Shouldn't be too bad?

    I also need to make sure the 32 fram is square before i finish the bottom of the body.

    Almost looks like a car!

    Aloha Tommy
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  29. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    p20.jpg p21.jpg p22.jpg p23.jpg p24.jpg p25.jpg S'more progress after work today.

    Got rid of the fiberglass...and some more rust.
    Now the body lines up!

    Next, Tack it together and start building the bottom part up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  30. 340HilbornDuster
    Joined: Nov 14, 2011
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    340HilbornDuster
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    p31.jpg p32.jpg p33.jpg It's flyin'

    I bent a piece of steel as a template to transfer the shape of the top of the car to the be even on both sides!

    It's now tacked to the top of the car to hold the shape / lift it!

    Next, make sure the chassis is straight before fitting the body to it.

    Man, These old cars are FUN!!!!!!!!!!!(must be illegal?)

    ALOHA
    T
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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