Customs Product Development Question - Push Button Door Latches

The maker of those is long gone. I tried to get with him when I needed a set for my Buick. Ended up buying off of eBay. $125 is a great price point for them. All I need are the buttons. I can do any linkage or adaptation myself.
I'm looking for another set for my 38 Buick now. They seem to have come down on eBay some. Last set went for under $200.

 

You could just go and get a Rambler American, '64-'69 are the same.

The problem with making a Lincoln push-button and you sell a million of them, is that... THEY WON'T BE COOL ANY MORE, because everyone will have them.

Just a thought...

 

Ok, I'm thinking I will start with the button assembly and then later on (if the buttons are popular enough), I will put together a linkage kit for inside the door.

Here is my initial design for the button assembly:



Material will be polished stainless steel for both the button and the housing.

OD as drawn is 1 1/2", and the overall depth is 1 5/16"

No final price yet, as I still have to run the numbers, but I'm shooting for a price range of $155 - $200 per pair (two assemblies).

Whatcha think?

 

sounds good to me

I cant wait to see the finished product

 

I love the look of both of these cars but the door button still screams modern to me. I appreciate what and why Smooth Custom does these and he builds beautiful cars but the door bottons don't work for me on a tradtional custom.

The guy that originally posted that these were traditional was refering to "back in the day" and I still stick by the statement that I have never seen a car built "back in the day" that is running this style door button and other than for legal requirements (ie. Australia) I would see a very limited market for this style button in the traditional market. I guess what I am saying is that if one was building a truly period car you would not use this type of button.

 

I would think they would be great at that price point.

 

Alrighty then, since I've not gotten strung up over the looks, I'll run the numbers and have a real retail price estimate in a few days or maybe a week.

Anyone have any comments on the size or the overall appearance?

Would one of you guys who has a set that's not installed measure the OD of the bezel and post it? I just want to see how close I came to the correct dimensions.

That model was done entirely from the pictures you guys posted in this thread, so I was (and still am) a bit apprehensive about the whether the exterior dimensions are close or not.

 

Put me down for set and when I get home later on today I will see if I can dig my original ones out and get you a ID measurement.

 

would definetly be interested, never a fan of electric poppers.

 

I'll get the measurements of my Lincoln stainless repops in the morning, since I haven't gooten them installed yet......too damn cold to be going back to the barn tonight!

 

I can measure one in the morning...

 

I heard that.

It was 27 degs F when I left work today, and it's heading for 20 F as I type.

Global warming my muscular white buttocks.

Thanks for the assist.

Thank you sir, the assistance is appreciated.


When I have a price and a production schedule worked up, I will post them up here and then do an ad in the classifieds to actually do the selling.

How many honest to goodness buyers have we got here at a maximum of $200/pair shipped? My runs will need to be at least 25 pairs, but if I could easily sell twice or three times that, they will be a little cheaper for me to build (and thusly cheaper for you all to buy).

 

I have a thought...
Instead of a bezel surround that is welded into the door, how about making the OD of the button assembly housing (the part that doesn't move) slightly smaller than a common size hole saw. As for attachment, I'm thinking something a little different than the stock Lincoln setup. Look at 60s dash switches where the body is threaded and the bezel screws on, or the bezel is integrated to the body and a nut screws on to the threaded body from the back. A softish washer like bronze that is fairly thick (1/2" or so) to go between the nut and inside of the body could be easily filed to fit the contour of the sheet metal and prove good enough clamping to prevent loosening without worrying about distorting the surrounding sheetmetal.

Then, after the usual filling of door handle holes is done, you could just locate where you want the button, drill a hole with a hole saw, file the washer to fit the countour, and screw it in. Guys could turn it sideways for cars where the latch mechanicsm rod needs to move up and down instead of front to back, too. A longish lever arm with multiple holes to change the ratio, and ultimately the throw of the linkage rod, would make it much more universal. The mid 60s Ford method of attaching the rod to the pushbutton and latch mechanicsm looks pretty universal-ish, or guys could use components for universal throttle linkage rods for multi-carb setups to hook the latch to the button...

As for pushing the door out enough to grab hold of, old-school mechanical (spring loaded) stand alone door poppers should work just fine. Hood latch springs work nicely, if you have a wide enough jam area.
Integrating a pusher mechanism into the button assembly will require many variations or limit the market to a certain range of lateral distance between the button and the door jam.

You could also leave mounting points on the body of the button assembly for an optional bracket and microswitch, so that a slight push activates the micro-switch to run electric latch and popper action for the gold chainers that don't have the finger strength for a mechanical setup (and the latch and popper setup could be robbed off of a dozen late model high end cars that work that way). Broad marketability to the guys with bucks to make it commercially viable, and still functional as a mechanical button for those of us who don't want electric doors

In my experience, the more widely varying the possible applications are without re-engineering, the more commercially viable it will be. I want a pair, but you won't make them if they are not viable

Just my $.02

 

I DUNNO, I LIKE WHAT Smooth Customs HAS DONE. NOT EVERY RODDER WANTS BILLET, OR EVEN CHROME HANDLES OR BUTTONS. HIS ARE COOL, AS ARE THE LINCOLN ONES. DEPENDS ON THE ROD. I NEVER THOUGHT I'D SEE ALL THESE LED LIGHTS ON RODS, BUT....

 

RYAN

Dont expect to work out potential sales based on what some guys tell you on a Forum page or at some show.

If you are that sure the part will be a winner, just make it. Then see what happens.

It will be a winner or a dud, as far as getting your investment back. And making enough to go again.

Design and manufacturing is a hard thing to predict.

K13

after three replies I know you dont like my Button kits, got the message the first time. And it dosent bother me. There are others out there that do like them. Thats what building any type of car is about, personal preference and individuality.

You have seen what I build, how about you showing all of us what you can do. Seeing you are so vocal on your likes and dislikes. And how it should be


On the topic of Lincoln buttons being traditional, can someone post say ten customs from the late 40's to the late 50's that used them. Asked this before but no one has come back with examples.

 

This first go-'round is going to be just a button and housing assembly. No linkages of any kind, no trim rings, no weld-in bezels or door patches.

The bezel is integrated into the housing, such that you just cut a hole into the door that is 1 1/4" in dia, drop in the button, and secure it from the back side with hardware that will be provided, including a compliant washer for the back side (good call there BTW, great minds my friend, great minds), though I won't be using bronze.

You only have to drill the one hole, and that's it. If you have to cross a funky body line or something, the underside of the "bezel" portion of the housing can be modified to suit the application (IE cut it to conform to the body line), or the whole button can be frenched through the body line. You will be able to do everything with my version that you can with the stock Lincoln version, and probably more besides.

The way these buttons mount to the door, it would be ridiculously easy to build a bracket to hold a microswitch like you're talking about. Three bends and three holes (two of which mount the microswitch), and you're done. Easy Peasy.

The linkages I was working on were modular, such that you could place the mounts inside the door wherever they needed to be and then cut the rods to suit. I haven't given up on that, but I'm putting it off to fill the more immediate want.

The poppers I will be leaving 'till another time as well, because, as you note, a common spring loaded plunger will more than suffice.

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. This ain't my first rodeo (product development for a niche market with much of the communication over an internet forum).

I usually figure about one in twenty that says they'll buy one, will actually buy one. However, what dealing I've done with folks on this site has shown me that they are far and away the least FOS people to deal with over the internet, so I'm guessing the ratio will be quite a bit lower than that here.

I get that you have a long established product that you use and sell in Oz, and that we could possibly maybe perhaps end up competing for customers. However, that's currently not a concern of mine, and honestly, I doubt that it'll ever be a concern of yours either. What you produce, and what I will produce are very different animals. Perhaps in the future we may cross, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

And even if we were, this would not be the first time I've come into a market that was not devoid of competition. I survived and made money in those markets, and I am confident that I can do so here as well.

I ask questions, not because I have no idea what I'm doing, but because I want to see what folks have to say. Contrary to your above advice, product development is not entirely a shot in the dark, especially when your target market is fairly small, and you can communicate with a good chunk of them directly.

If I lose my ass, I'll be my fault and no one else's. I don't need a nanny to hand-hold me through the delicate process of developing, manufacturing, and marketing a product. This is a road I have trod before, and often, so I would appreciate it if you could stow the patronizing "advice" for a while.

I appreciate the sentiment (if it is genuine), but it's not necessary.

 

i knocked this together quick to see if my upload works..

can someone open the zipped file and view the "animation"

and reply if it works..
fwiw

I like the Lincoln ones best.. I don't see demand being super high..

I wouldn't be willing to pay 200 for a set of door buttons..

 

It's no good.

Downloads correctly and unzips correctly, but the movie file is only 6kb, and while it opens and plays, it's just a second of black screen.

The upload and zip worked fine, but the movie itself is kaput.

What was it supposed to be?

EDIT: BTW, that monowheel bike is pretty cool.

 

RYAN

Yes i have a long history in several fields, from design and manufacture to a publishing venture. One that goes back over 30 years and these components are still being sold around the world today. When developed they were ground breaking new ideas, some were accepted and sold well. Others didnt. But I have no part in them any more.
As far as the button kits I have no real interest to sell them in any numbers, or at all in the US.
I only posted the photos to show what was possible, from a different direction

Best of luck with your venture

 

Thank you, and to you as well.

 

RYAN

I am using inventor to develop some parts of my own..

the zipped file was an animation I created of the parts "movement"

obviously I am still learning..

what design software are you using???

ps.. I wish we would have had inventor for the monowheel project..

sawzall

 

i used SBC Freeze plugs on my elcam, works great!

 

The pic I posted was from Solidworks.

For 2D stuff, AutoCAD is a lot faster, but you can't beat the para-metrics based programs (Solidworks, Inventor, etc) for solid modeling.

Years ago, I had to do my solids work in AutoCAD. That was unpleasant. Suffice to say, I did a little dance when I found Solidworks.

I read that thread. Very good use of available materials.

You and Teddy Roosevelt would have a lot in common, methinks (see the lower quote in my sig).

 

I'm sure glad I've got the originals.

Rikster thanks again for the design. Body mods are in the works now.

Movin/on

 

I measured the repro stainless steel Lincoln pushbuttons with a caliper and here’s what mine are:

- Bezel O.D. = 1.986”
- Bezel height (above door surface) = .253”
- Total height (above door surface, including pushbutton) = .315”
- Main body O.D. = 1.550”
- Main body depth (from back side of bezel to the end of the body) = 1.910”
- Actuating plunger O.D. = .810”
- Actuating plunger movement .180”

Hope this helps, but if any of my terms are confusing or if you want any additional info, PM me and I’ll do what I can to help you out.
-Bob

 

Ah, this is good data, and is most appreciated.

Now, that said, would it greatly offend you guys if these buttons weren't exactly the same size? I say this because hardware is a lot easier (and cheaper) to source in even standard sizes.

It appears to me that the bezel ring on the originals is ~1/4" wider than the ring on my version. Would this be a problem? I figured that the smaller the OD, the easier it would be to mount on crowned panels.

 

LOL, you beat me to it. I just sat down with one.... But I did snap a few more pics.

 

Thanks a lot for that ZMan, those pics are gold.

What do you think about the size being slightly smaller?

Is this a big deal to you, or will they be OK as is?

It's not a big thing to remodel them, but it will make them more expensive to produce, and I may have to manufacture the mounting hardware instead of just buying off the shelf stuff.

You guys have any opinion on this front?

 

A bit smaller wouldn't bother me. What size are you thinking about?