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problem on straight axle lowering

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hotik, Oct 6, 2012.

  1. Hotik
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 138

    Hotik
    Member
    from Usa

    I was lowering my 40 chevy with a straight axle on front. I have removed almost all leaf-springs and only 2 have left on both sides. Everything was seemed cool until I've finished the braking system and measured the huge spring-wrap on braking.

    Any good ideas? What could be the simplest way to fix it?
    Some kind of anti-wrap bar?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Seems you have removed to many spring leaves.You may need to get some new springs made with a straighter set to them so you can retain enough spring thickness for braking. JW
     
  3. Max The Torch
    Joined: May 19, 2011
    Posts: 12

    Max The Torch
    Member
    from Australia

    put the axle on top of the spring
    a little engineering needed but aint hard to do
     
  4. 296 V8
    Joined: Sep 17, 2003
    Posts: 4,672

    296 V8
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    from Nor~Cal

    You could reverse the main leafs. That would allow adding some back in to stiffen it back up and still sit low.
     
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  5. 296 V8
    Joined: Sep 17, 2003
    Posts: 4,672

    296 V8
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    from Nor~Cal

    On second thought … (assuming spring rate is were you want it) adding a long leaf on top of the main leaf would diminish wrap without changing rate … yes?
     
  6. Hotik
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 138

    Hotik
    Member
    from Usa

    What you think about this idea?

    [​IMG]
     
  7. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,819

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    That will help hide the problem. You can clamp the spring pack to stiffen the spring a little, but putting springs back in and dropping the axle would be best. Spring clamping is done by cheap ass mini truckers who want to run really low but have no money.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198214
     
  8. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 27,169

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Along with that problem the other problem with removing several leaves is that the springs just keep sagging until they finally bottom out against the frame. While it gives you the look you want it makes for a terrible driving and handling rig including your braking issue.
    This is the spring under my 48 and yes it bottomed out on a regular basis.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. hugh m
    Joined: Jul 18, 2007
    Posts: 2,142

    hugh m
    Member
    from ct.

    The springs will still wrap up with more leaves, my buddie had the same issue on a forties chev pickup due to the leverage the dropped axle put on the suspension. He cured ti with a "Traction Master" style torque rod on each side. Same deal as rear spring wrap up, and same solution, at least for him. Be interesting to see how others do it. (that is a dropped axle?)
     
  10. Hotik
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 138

    Hotik
    Member
    from Usa

    Hey..sounds like me :p but..I'will take a look and maby try my cheap idea.. :/
     
  11. JakeDW
    Joined: Sep 30, 2012
    Posts: 580

    JakeDW
    Member
    from Missouri

    LOL cheap ass mini truckers back when you were low with leafs on even the mono leafs they made would break if you we're not cheap and bought a set you could say a cheap ass hot rodder would pull leafs flip axles in stead of a mustang II front end.Its all relative rite.
     
  12. jalopy45
    Joined: Nov 5, 2005
    Posts: 527

    jalopy45
    Member

    You're creating a dangerous situation by removing that many leaves, if you can't steer it and stop it properly, don't start it., give Sid a call or message at , http://www.droppedaxles.com/ , he's also on the HAMB as 55 Mercury and either replace or add leaves . Just saw a 40's GMC truck with similar modifications in the Jerseywall on the way to the Texas Goodguys show yesrterday that broke a front spring and lost steering and brakes when the brake hose broke. Leave that kind of modifictions to the rat rods.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  13. 296 V8
    Joined: Sep 17, 2003
    Posts: 4,672

    296 V8
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    Exactly my thoughts
    Id try it …. 0 cost - easily undone
    ................................................................................................

    Dangerous?
    I disagree strongly …. 2 springs are stronger than 1 just for starters.
     
  14. jalopy45
    Joined: Nov 5, 2005
    Posts: 527

    jalopy45
    Member

    Springs are designed to flex and rebound in one direction only, if you introduce brake wrap up into the mix you then have flexing in several directions and the result will be hardening and fractures, just like taking a piece of wire and bending it back and forth until it snaps.
    So yes dangerous.
     
  15. Southfork
    Joined: Dec 15, 2001
    Posts: 1,463

    Southfork
    Member

    Hey, Hotik: I'm building a 37 Chev coupe and am debating whether to get a dropped axle or to run a stock straight axle. Kind of leaning towards the stock axle though for a gasser look. What brakes are you running? Stock 40 Chevy hydraulics?

    Also, what are the engine and the motor mounts in your '40?
     
  16. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,819

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    Learn from the mistakes of others, don't pull out too many leaves. Body work is more expensive than a drop axle. I promise. Besides, a proper axle and proper springs will ride so much better. You do want to drive the car, right?
     
  17. 296 V8
    Joined: Sep 17, 2003
    Posts: 4,672

    296 V8
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    from Nor~Cal

    Ok
    So springs aren’t designed to flex ….. Really?
    Every parallel leaf setup front or rear has had spring wrap to one degree or another since the day they were made.

    This discussion is about reducing it on this particular setup / car that I mite ad ….. Is obviously lighter than the springs were designed for.

    So your point would be fantastic and correct if it applied here but it doesn’t.

    We build hot rods here
    That involves modifying - problem solving - blazing new trails / finding new ways to make stuff look and perform bitching.
    This isn’t about restoring stockers - what’s sold in a catalog - fallowing - or being careful to the point of ridiculousness.
     
  18. 53sled
    Joined: Jul 5, 2005
    Posts: 5,819

    53sled
    Member
    from KCMO

    If he is getting SO MUCH spring wrap that it caused him concern, maybe a devil may care attitude isn't the right solution. There is more to a proper spring rate than vehicle weight.
     
  19. bobscogin
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,745

    bobscogin
    Member

    Well flex and rebound are two directions right there. Could you clarify your statement?

    Bob
     
  20. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,284

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    Add 1/2 leaf to the rear of the spring [ the end without the shackle]

    do this by cutting the leaf you have already removed with a cut-off wheel

    This will stiffen the spring from wrapping up without stiffening the "Spring rate"
     
  21. jalopy45
    Joined: Nov 5, 2005
    Posts: 527

    jalopy45
    Member

    <TABLE class=notebox border=1 cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=3 width=150 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD class=titlebar>[​IMG]</TD></TR><TR><TD class=caption>Don't let this happen to your springs. Springs can deflect to take this shape under load, when the pinion has rotated up in reaction to the torque applied to the tires</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Couldn't find a picture or drawing of a front spring but a leaf spring is desiigned to spread the force over the length of the leaf/leaves to work in a flex/rebound, spring wrap up forces the leaf/leaves to bend not flex in an S shape, this shows a drive axle but the same happens with a solid braking axle with the weight of the car pushing against the wheels that are being braked, the springs would just wrap up in the reverse pattern of the drive axle.
     
  22. Hotik
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 138

    Hotik
    Member
    from Usa

    Hey.. this is 40 business coupe. And there are disc-brakes on front. Engine is 350.

    at the moment there are only two leafs on both side.. and this is too few to avoid the wrap. But if I put two leafs back to them. I think that it would give enough strength to the braking. or?

    I know it sounds really cheap and stupid... If I order it from there it will cost x3 cause shippig. So id like to try some cheap ways first to fix the problem :/

    how to add leafs like this, that they wont rise the front end. one thought went through my mind also to add some half cutted leafs to rear side of. they will support the leaf-pack at braking I think. Originally it has 6 leafs in the pack.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  23. Halfdozen
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 602

    Halfdozen
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Put the original leaf stack back together and take the whole works to a spring shop and have it dearched. Reduces the arch of the spring while maintaining the spring rate.
     
  24. Jibs
    Joined: May 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,495

    Jibs
    Member

    exactly
     
  25. jalopy45
    Joined: Nov 5, 2005
    Posts: 527

    jalopy45
    Member

    Take a look at the mid70's and 80's Volvo's,:) their front suspension unbolts as a unit , they will support your weight and you get rack and pinion steering, disc brakes and they should be more plentiful than Mustang units.
     
  26. Hotik
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 138

    Hotik
    Member
    from Usa

    ..today I added 3 leafs to each pack.. and putted 4. upside down. now there's a 6 leafs in each. I think/hope it has the factory strength again.

    result

    [​IMG]


    And on the axle again.. I tried to hold the brake on and push the frame forward like I did before. It still wrap the whole leaf-packs but not so much now. I think all leaf springs have some kind of wrap on accelerating or braking - there's no alternative.

    How it looks?

    [​IMG]
     
  27. Southfork
    Joined: Dec 15, 2001
    Posts: 1,463

    Southfork
    Member

    Looks great to me! I prefer it to a MII set up.

    What disc brake kit did you use up front?
     
  28. Hotik
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 138

    Hotik
    Member
    from Usa

    hmm..there seem to be a full size chevy brakes .. similar to fallowing kit.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. That snubber is awful close, can you cut it down?
     
  30. Hotik
    Joined: Jan 7, 2011
    Posts: 138

    Hotik
    Member
    from Usa

    this cone snubber going against the leafs next to u-bolts. but the leafs are now enough stiff that I jumped on the frame front end real hard to touch the snubber. If needed I can add air-shocks to help the leafs. I thought also that maby I add extra snubber bushings to exist fittings (you can see it on the picture..littlebit backside under the frame. I think they will also support leafs to not wrap on braking. or?
     

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