The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Bruce Fischer, May 17, 2017.
Heres another shot of the trunk area .It too was in rough shape paint wise.Bruce.
There looks like there was a sealer of some sort too. I have to sand through .You can see it at the bottom of the truck area.Bruce.
After seeing those pictures I see your reasoning, in the previous pictures it didn't appear that bad from here.
Thanks Harvey.I will go with the gray.Thanks Bruce.
Slopok.I have to go this route because I want her to look nice when she done.Thanks Bruce.
No matter how expensive or cheap it all has to go over CLEAN METAL. You can use an "economy" 2K primer direct to metal and it will be light years ahead of porous lacquer primers. The cost of quality lacquer primers is a false measure as it takes about twice the material to do the job of a single 2K. Sounds wrong, I know, but efficient build can't be achieved in one serving of lacquer based primers. The amount of solvent required just to get it out of the gun is another expense. I know many folks champion the use of mail-order materials and it's mostly related to the end expense. The fact is there's only so many solids and chemicals available to manufacture product. Nobody "mines" a special proprietary ingredient that has a superior edge over the rest. That said, I always recommend direct face to face material purchase from professional suppliers. Why? Because in the middle of the job when that problem arises, and they do, you want to get material right now, not 3 days later when it's all cured and you have to start from scratch again (no pun intended). I really like PPG Shop-Line 202 primer. About $150 give or take a few bucks for a total 5qt package (4:1 mix), fast build, very little to no shrinkage, left unsanded maintains a "seal" to minor environmental changes (humidity, temp, etc). Anything can go over it, even lacquer. Yes, I said lacquer. Epoxy is a good base for bare metal but like I said 1st thing, the metal must be clean and free of rust, even the most minor of rust pits. A good chemical wash and rinse with hot water followed by lots of air to dry right away. You could spray a light seal coat of epoxy and let that set for an hour, then directly to a 2K without sanding. Knowing how we treat our cars I wouldn't demand an epoxy or "e-coat". Salt, excess UV, improper storage are all but gone in the majority of use. If itwere just an old car that was intended to see the daily abuse that our DDs get, fuck it, better get Maaco. I can't see going to the trouble and expense just to let it waste away like a soccer mom's minivan. And I also realize that there's dozens upon dozens of ways to skin this cat. Just beware of false economy decisions and do some research 1st, compare apples to apples. Mail order is great for those who have no pro outlet to buy materials from. And when shipping VOC stuff there's usually a hazmat charge attached. How much is that? I wouldn't know because I've seldom to never done it. I spent $85 for a qt of base from TPG in CA about 10 years ago. It was worth it to get a color made locally. Hope this helps.
heh...interesting to hear that someone else that understands that we don't treat our cars like they had been treated during their previous several decades of existence. And that this fact can affect what the material requirements are, for a repaint.
Highlander, you are saying go with the k2 primer.Is that what I ask for? Thanks Bruce.
Hey Bruce, not sure if you'd seen this or not...
Yes Bruce, a good 4 to 1 urethane primer is all you really need. What I like about the PPG Shop-Line 202 is the fast build, direct to metal (clean), and of course the price. When the misery of sanding comes along it doesn't clog the paper as bad as other variants I've used. It's also a good sold seal until you do sand it as are most other urethane 4 to 1 primers. Perhaps not 100% waterproof as in leave it outdoors for weeks at a time but still solid enough to hold out til paint. Although you can go straight to color over it I always seal with reduced epoxy. Sealing prevents excess solvent penetration which is the leading cause of bodywork showing through the finished product. About a 25% reduction to the epoxy, 2 nice even coats, wait 30min, paint. I can't stress enough to have the metal as clean as possible. Sanding doesn't give the etch that a good metal cleaner provides. I know it's a bitch on a whole car but it makes all that work hold up, potentially for a lifetime with proper care. Good luck...
Thanks for the information.Bruce.
Thanks Crminal. Bruce.
Primer serves two purposes. First to make the surface all the same color so you do not get variations in color when you paint. Secondly, to give you a sandable surface to remove imperfections. The biggest difference between the lacquer primer and urethane primer is the amount of time it can be exposed to moisture. Lacquer will only hold out moisture for a few days. Because urethane uses a catalyst to cure the product, it can keep the moisture out more like a top coat. While the lacquer can be sanded in less than hour, it is prone to shrinkage. Urethane should be given a longer dry time, but once it has dried, it will not shrink. Good luck, but having used both in the last 40 years, I highly recommend the urethane.
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A little bit of advice. I started painting acrylic enamel in 1978. If you insist on using a single stage paint, be sure to add a harder to it. Otherwise you can come back on a sunny day and leave a fingerprint in it. My advice is to use base coat clear coat.
The reason is simple. Single stage paint fades with time unless it is clear coated to prevent the sun from shining directly on the pigments in the paint.
You might as well give yourself an advantage. You will have less build up of paint and be less prone to chipping. But the real reason is it takes a more experienced painter to use single stage. Acrylic enamel is unforgiving. The paint job that you get when you are done spraying is the final product.
Base clear allows you to color sand and buff out any imperfections. Single stage is hard to match. Old cars always need touched up. And base clear is just blend into the old paint, and re clear the entire pannel.
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Thanks.I always use hardner.Bruce.
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