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Technical PPG paint

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by OLDSMAN, May 4, 2014.

  1. NMCarNut
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 635

    NMCarNut
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If your temperature was about 65 I'd be using DT 860.

    DT temperature ranges:
    860: 60 - 70 F
    870: 65 - 80 F
    885: 75 - 90 F
    895: 85 F and up
     
  2. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    The blender stops you from seeing the edge. I have done this on repairs on my convertible, 3 or 4 years ago and you can not see an edge at all. I know most professional painters don't like to do it that way, but I had a profesional painter show me how to do it, and have been doing it with a lot of success since then. I guess it is a matter od preference. But none the less you can not tell where I have repaired the paint on my convertible
     
  3. I just find it hard to believe that if you are not familiar with a product you would search for the information after you use it would seem to make more sense to find out what products you have before hand.


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  4. I find it hard to believe that an $8000. paint job and they did not strip the whole car.
     
  5. '48IHC
    Joined: Aug 4, 2013
    Posts: 224

    '48IHC
    Member

    I have never been a fan of clear blending either. I've only used color blender over large blend areas. However, the clear blends I have done on small panels have all died back and lost their gloss after 4-5 years and need touched up or buffed out. Then you run the risk of de-lamination on the thin clear edge. These cars were also driven daily and never garaged. Don't mean to beat a dead horse, but a complete panel refinish is a much better repair and doesn't take much more time or material. Just my two cents.


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  6. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    The reason that I didn't research this more beforehand was that he bought all the products from the body shop, and thought they would know what to use for the repair. Shame on me, this just cost me more work. I will wet sand tonight and see where I am then
     
  7. This would be the same body shop that screwed it up in the first place ?
    That stripped everything but that one spot ?
    That wanted 2000 to fix it?
    That probably paints in a heated booth?

    I'm not busting your balls, but if you aren't familiar with a product line it makes more sense to me to find out what to do than to find out what why it went wrong. But what the hell do I know, people tell me I think too much?

    Education is expensive, time investment in research might be easier than doing it twice
     
    loudbang likes this.
  8. Blue Coupe
    Joined: Oct 11, 2009
    Posts: 58

    Blue Coupe
    Member

    This dose not appear to be the paint, its human error. PPG has always been good to me.
     
  9. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,827

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    Remember also that any references to temperature means BOOTH TEMPERATURE AT THE TIME OF SPRAYING.

    Humidity can also be a factor.
     

  10. I always heard to match the reducer to the temp of the metal being painted. Not ambient air. So that's what I do and I don't have too much trouble
     
  11. '48IHC
    Joined: Aug 4, 2013
    Posts: 224

    '48IHC
    Member

    How many coats did you put on of everything? Blender is not intended to be used as a "final coat". Someone mentioned it earlier, blender is basically reducer. So of course it will run if applied like a coat of clear. Also, what are your flash times? Those can be a huge factor. What clear are you using? One of the best tools I use when painting is an infrared thermometer to check the temperature of the metal. Harbor freight has them for around $50 and I have never had any issues.


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  12. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,245

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I 1st pulled the trigger on a complete at 14yrs old. Now soon to be 57, still PPG all the way save for very few support products. I hate 4:1 clears. Now the industry standard in clears it just means get used to it or don't shoot so I suck it up and run with it (no pun intended). Blender over the whole job? Even a whole panel? You couldn't pay enough to try that. I've had 1 PPG issue in all my years I couldn't sort out. 1 panel got hard as a rock, 1 stayed soft. Same material, same substrates through out the whole job, same age on every single panel shot that day. Now by 1 panel I mean 1 door, 1 qtr, the hood stayed soft the decklid hardened, the wheelhouse on the qtr was rock hard, the rest was soft, the leftovers in the cup gelled up overnight, the material "count" was 100% right (2qts clear gone, 1/2 can of catalyst). I beat myself pretty hard over this and still can't fathom a reason. I had to spend the next 11 days wet sanding all the clear off the car in 94deg heat on the 1st few days. Tested 1st before I refinished, proper cure.

    So why did I report this? Because it's alchemy sometimes. You can shoot 100 perfect jobs and then something will bite you in the ass. All I can say about DuPont, you can't pay me enough to use it. I was DuPont for almost a year and had more issues that all my years prior combined. Mainly the base coat lifting without warning or cause, which in fact turned out to be a manufacturing error that was "corrected" but I was told it was me until their local tech support guy came out and watched me shoot the base. Of course I got a bobble-headed response as he left with the "I dunno" look on his face. No product, no help, just a shrug and shaking head. On this clear issue I had last summer my PPG guy hooked me up with more product and any support he could muster for nothing, and it's expensive clear at $350/pkg.

    At the end of the day you sprayed slow dry solvent on the final coat, which was still wet, which was still flowing, and it handily sped up the flow process.
     
  13. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    I did not use blender on a whole panel. I just repaired a bad section of the car below the rear window, cleared that and used blender to get the clear to match and not show an edge
     
  14. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 10,245

    theHIGHLANDER
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    With very little practice you can blend urethane clear without the use of blender. Much like the days of lacquers, sand out to finer grits. Up to 2000 isn't out of the question depending on the color. Rather than a blending material sold by the supplier, make your own. Keep a little splash of your mixed clear handy and some clean solvent just above the temp grade you're using. Essentially you're creating your own blender. You want about 1-2oz clear to a pint of solvent. Mist it gently over the blend area and LEAVE A SMALL AREA OF SANDED FINISH. That's the 1st step to getting it right. TAKE YOUR TIME AND TRUST YOURSELF. That's the most important step. Once you've misted the area over, maybe 2 times, then go to straight solvent and mist the last of the sanded area. WARNINGS: It's like water so it will run like it's in a race. If you're doing a small spot repair the mist will get all over the rest of the car like any other slow dry overspray. Don't heat the repair to excess as the dreaded solvent pop will happen. It's best to allow an overnight dry before sanding and polishing. Sand with as fine a grit as possible and finish with 3000. I prefer to polish with Meguire's 3 and a soft cloth vs compound. It takes more time but the results can be truly invisible...forever. Hope this helps, and that means anyone in a pinch needing a clear repair.
     
  15. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    With all due respect to the Highlander and others who have had good results with blenders and blending clears, I never had any success with it myself, nor can I recall seeing any in my 20 years of paint & body work. I found it easier, in my honest humble opinion, to clear to a good break, even if that meant clearing the roof and both quarters, as someone mentioned earlier. Even though I have been almost completely out of the business for 15+ years, I'm certain I would still do the same thing today. Some might consider that a pound of prevention instead of an ounce, but I always liked keeping comebacks and re-do's to an absolute minimum.
     
  16. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    The job is now done, just was a huge pain in my ass. The job turned out, my buddy was happy with it. This was a huge learning experience for me
     
  17. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    Floyd stopped over after work tonight driving the 39. All cleaned up it does look great, can't tell where I repaired the paint. He spent more on the original job than what I had thought. The shop replaced both lower door shins and rocker panels, and that with the complete paint job, he paid the shop $15.000, and they couldn't even take care of their paint problem
     
  18. s55mercury66
    Joined: Jul 6, 2009
    Posts: 4,335

    s55mercury66
    Member
    from SW Wyoming

    Good to hear that worked out for you, Oldsman.
     
  19. OLDSMAN
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,422

    OLDSMAN
    BANNED

    Thanks, it is hard to think that a reputible shop could shaft anyone that bad and still sleep at night
     

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