Ace Hardware sells a paint they claim can be used over rust as long as you use their primer as well. How well does it stack up to POR 15? The Ace primer and rust paint are $25 a gallon versus $25 a quart for POR 15. I imagine a Tractor Supply would have a comperable paint as well?
Well if I recall right, it is something really inspired like "Rust Paint", and it comes in gloss black, red, white, green, and blue. Flats in the same colors. It is in the regular paint section, at least in the Ace here.
That would be Ace brand Rust Stop. It's about on par with Rustolium(and I have a sneaking suspision that it is also made by Rustolium as well)
Would that be like True Value's "Rust X" also? I have half a can leftover from having my '40 Buick painted and was debating about cleaning up the rust on my Suburban and using this up with a roller just so the truck doesn't quite look so much like shit. Even the touchup I already did has rust spots peeking through most of it - except the spots I threw some POR-15 on last fall.
POR's big selling point is that they chemically "convert" the rust (using phosphoric acid, IIRC) to something that can be painted over. Many other paints will "adhere" to the rust which may or may take care of the problem. Check the label on the primer carefully. And if you can sand off most of the rust you may not need the $$$ stuff. Lowe's has some stuff call "rust converter" that does the same chemical reaction as POR-15. I've been happy with the results so far but haven't had a chance to really test it yet.
I've used a half-dozen different varieties, and it's just like my daddy said "you get what you pay for... POR15 is some serious shit, I rolled it on the floorboards of my '61 Biscayne a few years back, following all the instructions and chemical applications to the letter... it's like adding an extra layer of bulletproof Kevlar to your metal. I beat on it with a ballpeen hammer, and the shit wouldn't give, and these floors were weak to begin with. It rocks if you need serious rust coverage on something you don't want to rust again. All the other brands I've tried are just fine if you follow procedures and use the appropriate primers, but I've found them to be most useful if you just want to "cover-up" surface rust. I've used them on projects that need to be done quickly, on bodies that need large areas of surface rust covered, and they are quite good for the price. But for frames, floors and trunks - I'd pop for the POR15 if you want a real good, tough ruststopper.
I have used POR 15's engine enamels but not the rust converter stuff but have heard/read testimonies of people that had. It is supposed to work. I am considering using it on my Olds mostly because I am to lazy to strip all the rust off. Was thinking about hitting just the rust spots with POR 15 rust converter and then primer/painting the whole car my chosen color. FWIW the enamel is great stuff and hard as rock, it has lots of solid colorants in it compared to regular hardware store enamels. Very good stuff.
Ace has the phosphoric acid as well. I thought of using that and primering and then painting. We sahll see, I need to see if I can even find POR locally.
Why risk it considering the what you get for the added cost? As mentioned above, I too have smashed metal to metal covered in POR and the stuff is amazing. I am not affiliated or anything, I have just used it on at least 5 different projects and it has never let me down once, anywhere I applied it. After all the work you put into your ride, why gamble? (wow, I should write commercials....)
The cute little cashier at my local Ace hardware is quite helpful. Last week we found out that she is also on the Indiana Sex Offenders website. She was the good kind of sex offender though. She did it for money. Anyway, she talked me into using the Ace brand last year and I tried it out. This spring the parts look just like they did last year. The rust is already coming back through. I am fairly sure it's Rustoleum.
Apparently she deals in all sorts of hardware. I haven't checked the POR I put on my '50, it's still up in the garage, but I expect it will be fine. I want to use it inside the doors and stuff, places where the metal has a good coat of surface rust, and not only is it impossible to get to to sand out, there's no point in it because it will never be seen.
Yep, its just paint- Ace's competition for Rustoleum. If you need something that works like POR15, I'd spend the $$$ and buy the POR stuff. It'll be cheaper to buy it & use it now than it will be to redo it again later after using the cheap stuff!
Just one more element when considering using POR-15 : Isocyanates. There are cases of guys who have been painting for years with little ill-effect, use paint with Isocyanates once, and they are done for. Other people seem not to be affected by it. However, you don't know until you do. . . One bad reaction to Iscoyanates can lay you up in the hospital, and make you super-sensitive to the stuff for the rest of your life. I'm not saying not to use it, but one should take additional application precautions (and costs) into account when comparing it to Rustoleum or other lesser paints. See the "official" warnings, and note that fresh-air supply respirators are suggested: http://www.por15.com/Portals/0/uploads/Files/pormsds.pdf
Permatex makes something very similar to POR 15 and it works just as well. Used it on my T frame, after a year no rust recurrence and hit with a hammer with no effect. It is cheaper than POR 15. Its not always a matter of getting what you pay for, because sometimes the more expensive is actually worse. Not in this case, but soemthing to just generally keep in mind. But if you can get something that works just as well and save a dime, sounds pretty good. Used the Eastwood converter paint as well, and it works pretty well.
There are some misconceptions here. there are no acids in POR 15. It works an entirely different way. There are three basic types of rust prevention coatings. The first would be Rustoleum, Xrusto, RustX, Corroless, and Zero Rust. They are for the most part conventional paint, usually syntheic enamel based. These paints contain oils that react slowly so the cure process is extended, making them self sealing, and able to soak into rust, sealing it up. Only the primers have this quality, the rest of the line is just synthetic enamel paint, in most cases high quality paint, but just paint none the less. The second would be the rust convertors, Extend, Fertran, Permatex Rust convertor, ect. These are phosphoric acid, water, and most have a latex oil base. What these do is react the acid with the oxygen in the rust to form an inert compound, robbing the iron oxide of any free oxygen, then sealing it with the latex oil. It does work, but not on real thick rust. As long as it's topcoated soon it will do the job. The third type is POR 15, Rust Bullet, and a couple others. These are isocyanate based, essentially super glue with a pigment added. The way they work, isocyanate need moisture to cure, so what they do is rob the free water from rust spots, and all rust spots have free water in them, that's why they come back. Once the free water is gone, the remaining rust is sealed in place very effectively, and becomes inert. Of the three types, the last type seems to work best for me, some better than others, but that's another story.
Just called permatex rust converter. Milk consistency tan colored fluid. Becareful the acid fumes are strong. Read the above post its informative. I didn't know that POR15 was isocyanate based and didn't use phosphoric acid. Could also go the naval jelly route. But thats a different story.
So that explains why POR15 "dries" so much faster on really humid days than on dry days... no matter what the ambient temps are! Anyways, there's a lot of info floating around here on the HAMB and elswhere on the 'net (and you should believe everything you read on the 'net, right? ) saying that E-wood's rust encapsulator is far and away better than POR15. Easier to topcoat and holds up to UV a lot better is the main deal they say. Plus, the prevention of more rust in the future is at least marginally better with Ewood's stuff. I put some Rustoleum gloss black (Lowe's was out of satin that day.) on my lower control arms, leaf springs, and rear axle housing a couple years ago. I drive the car every day year-round, and the Rustoleum is holding up VERY well... much better than other chassis parts I had painted with some leftover PPG Automotive Enamel. The control arms & springs were new when I painted them, and I just cleaned up/wiped down the rear axle housing before I sprayed the Rustoleum on it. I should also mention that this was the stuff you get in the quart can for $8, and I followed the directions on the can to a T. I haven't had near as good luck with the rattlecan Rustloeum. Based on my own experience, I'd rather spend the $8 on Rustoleum than $32 on POR15. YMMV.
I used the Lowe's rust encapsulator on my floor pans and trunk pans. I'm happy with it, but it took more than onw coat to get coverage. Maybe I just had too much rust! I painted my car with a brush last summer using the RustStop brand. First I sanded/sweated/ground down to bare metal, though, put on RustStop primer, sanded that "smoothish" and then brushed on the topcoat. I know I'll be doing some serious customizing in the future, so I'm waiting until I'm done to get a "real paint job". I'm happty with the results I've had. But I don't expect much, I guess. And yes, it's flat black--that's the only color my store had! I wanted red oxide, but one settles. One day, it will be a chopped, dropped and hopped up vision of pearl... Tucker
I add 4 oz. of el cheapo acrylic enamel hardener to Ace hardware's version of Rust Oleum and it dries as hard and durable as POR-15 for way less money. Been doing it for years with excellent results on floorpans and frames. Just brush it on nice and thick and let it dry.
I used Eastwoods Rust Encapsulator under my car 2 years ago. It's been through 2 WI winters as a daily driver, and it still looks pretty good. the only place I really have rust comming bacu was inside the wheelwells where it it contunially pelted with rocks. A rubberized undercoating on top of the RE would have prevented that though.
Does anyone know why some brands tend to work better/worse when sprayed or brushed on? Ive heard from some people that POR doesnt work nearly as well when sprayed (although i assume it could just be that thy didnt get enough coverage), but Ive also heard many people say that the Eastwood stuff holds up very well when sprayed. Ill be getting ready to do the underside of my Fairlane soon and would like to use a product that I can spray, if possible.
I've used a lot of POR-15, and it is indestructable. But, there are a few things to consider. 1 - don't get it on anything that pivots, like a hood hinge. It will glue it together like it was welded. 2- if you get it on your skin and don't get it off right away, it will be there till it wears off. 3- you can spray it with good results, but don't let the overspray get on anything, because nothing will disolve it when it dries. You will have to sand it off. 4- clean your spray gun imediately after use or you will be throwing it away.
5. Don't spray without a complete fresh air respirator(those 1/2 face things aren't good enough). The Isocyanates can KILL you.
do you smoke "left handed" cigarettes? try sandblasing POR....it doesnt happen...why try to save a few bucks on a product that obvious does what its supposed to do. I swear by it...I wont use anything else. Let the car out live you.
I bought some POR a few weeks ago , I have never used it before ,it's been sitting on my bench waiting to go on the floor of my 53 . Now I'm a lil more anxious to do it !
I'm not sure I want to use stuff that requires NBC gear just to apply. I work at a refinery, lots of deadly chemicals and gasses. I hate going into the plant. Too many stories... I like INXS' idea of adding hardener, anything that can survive in the rustbelt will do just fine here. Fuck isocyanates.
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